US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

I've ALWAYS said that. It's your assumptions that make YOU think otherwise.

Nope. My statements are based on the findings of the courts, thus far. The only thing USAPA hangs on at this very moment is that the DFR is not ripe (according to the ninth) right now, BUT will MOST ASSUREDLY be RIPE when a joint contract is delivered that DOES NOT contain the NICOLAU seniority list (unaltered). FACT.

This is why the company is now in court for declaratory judgement. They know they will be held responsible (hybrid DFR) if they are a party to a joint CBA that does not contain the Nicolau Award (unaltered). Mikey & Randy have already told your pilot group (when you were drooling over UAL's international fleet years ago): No arbitrated seniority list has EVER been overturned by the courts. PERIOD.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, ALPA merger poilicy is to vague to be followed by anyone.

The same applies to that statement as to "Nic didn't follow the policy". Personally I don't see anything that hard to understand. A PID - is it that? Negotiate, mediate, arbitrate - is that hard to understand? Final & binding - is that the hard part? A list of goals, with no certain order and some potentially conflicting with others depending on the facts of the merger - is it that which is so hard to understand?

If ALPA's policy is so vague, how about the law? Is "fair" perfectly clear and the same interpretation to everyone?

Personally, I see it as a case of the east not liking the result so trying to blame the policy, the arbitrator, the west, anyone or anything to justify trying to avoid the result.

Anyone is entitled to claim that the policy is vague, Nic didn't follow it, ALPA submitted bad data, whatever. However, no one is entitled to state any of that as a fact except the BOD or a Judge.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Nope. My statements are based on the findings of the courts, thus far. The only thing USAPA hangs on at this very moment is that the DFR is not ripe (according to the ninth) right now, BUT will MOST ASSUREDLY be RIPE when a joint contract is delivered that DOES NOT contain the NICOLAU seniority list (unaltered). FACT.

This is why the company is now in court for declaratory judgement. They know they will be held responsible (hybrid DFR) if they are a party to a joint CBA that does not contain the Nicolau Award (unaltered). Mikey & Randy have already told your pilot group (when you were drooling over UAL's international fleet years ago): No arbitrated seniority list has EVER been overturned by the courts. PERIOD.

Thank you for that diatribe. Most assuredly is a FACT, Okay. And it applies to the conversation how?

I don't think USAPA is trying to get a court to overturn the Nic, is it? They decided to renegotiate it. Has a seniority list ever been renegotiated? The legal part will be "is it fair?"

Are you related to USA320?

 

[BoeingBoy]

It doesn't work with mine. Tried it. I guess I have stealth capability.

Driver B)

Nor mine but my certificate hasn't been usable for years. Did you change the default 10 records?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nope, she said that anyone besides Ray Charles, you and anyone else that wanted to twist and avoid would have figured it out.

You talking to your dog again?

It
: referring to something already mentioned - Her dog was howling at the door, so he let it in. The dog, not a cat, stranger, gorilla, etc
: : that one —used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing <took a quick look at the house and noticed it was very old>, <there is a rosebush near the fence and it is now blooming>

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Nor mine but my certificate hasn't been usable for years. Did you change the default 10 records?

Jim

Change it to what? Your certificate doesn't expire to my knowledge. I tried it a couple different ways and nothing. I went on the FAA registry and everything was there. My nephew's stuff worked on landings.com.

Weird...

Driver

 

[cactusboy53]

It doesn't work with mine. Tried it. I guess I have stealth capability.

Driver B)

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*193800883!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_namd_full.html

Try that part of the web site Skipper. My name is neither very common nor uncommon. I typed in my first name, last name & checked "pilot license". There were 10 people with the same first and last name. Mine was listed #8 based on alphabetical of the middle name. Works great, lasts a long time (unless you are a poser...Nah, that couldn't be it). 🙂

 

[A320 Driver]

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*193800883!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_namd_full.html

Try that part of the web site Skipper. My name is neither very common nor uncommon. I typed in my first name, last name & checked "pilot license". There were 10 people with the same first and last name. Mine was listed #8 based on alphabetical of the middle name. Works great, lasts a long time (unless you are a poser...Nah, that couldn't be it). 🙂

Nope...no ATP, no CFI, no A&P...nada. Other family members were there. I don't want to bust your chops over it. It may not work for everybody.

Driver

 

[cactusboy53]

Thank you for that diatribe. Most assuredly is a FACT, Okay. And it applies to the conversation how?

I don't think USAPA is trying to get a court to overturn the Nic, is it? They decided to renegotiate it. Has a seniority list ever been renegotiated? The legal part will be "is it fair?"

Are you related to USA320?

These words are paraphrased from statements made by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. They are the ones that said though not ripe now, would be so later if anything other than the Nic were "negotiated" in the new contract. To answer your question regarding a seniority list being renegotiated, NOT under the circumstances that we are in.

FAIR, that's the place where you go on the Ferris Wheel and eat cotton candy. Fair is also an opinion based on perception, like: "It's NOT FAIR that Randy McNerlin was placed at # 518 on the Nicolau list, when we all know that America West Holdings acquired the former US Air."

That may be the perception of Capt. McNerlin, but the fact remains that Capt. McNerlin's CBA and the US Air CBA agreed to the product of final and binding arbitration. The fact that a new CBA has been voted in changes NOTHING.

Court's in session (just like school). The end game will arrive eventually. Have a great evening.

 

[cactusboy53]

Nope...no ATP, no CFI, no A&P...nada. Other family members were there. I don't want to bust your chops over it. It may not work for everybody.

Driver

May I conclude from this discussion that you did not receive the brochures? Please PM me your information, and I will make sure that you are included....

 

[ManDachine]

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*193800883!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_namd_full.html

Try that part of the web site Skipper. My name is neither very common nor uncommon. I typed in my first name, last name & checked "pilot license". There were 10 people with the same first and last name. Mine was listed #8 based on alphabetical of the middle name. Works great, lasts a long time (unless you are a poser...Nah, that couldn't be it). 🙂

I tried, I guess I'm stealthy too!

 

[Pi brat]

Nope...no ATP, no CFI, no A&P...nada. Other family members were there. I don't want to bust your chops over it. It may not work for everybody.

Driver

I got my son's info, I'm not there.

 

[Pi brat]

These words are paraphrased from statements made by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. They are the ones that said though not ripe now, would be so later if anything other than the Nic were "negotiated" in the new contract. To answer your question regarding a seniority list being renegotiated, NOT under the circumstances that we are in.

FAIR, that's the place where you go on the Ferris Wheel and eat cotton candy. Fair is also an opinion based on perception, like: "It's NOT FAIR that Randy McNerlin was placed at # 518 on the Nicolau list, when we all know that America West Holdings acquired the former US Air."

That may be the perception of Capt. McNerlin, but the fact remains that Capt. McNerlin's CBA and the US Air CBA agreed to the product of final and binding arbitration. The fact that a new CBA has been voted in changes NOTHING.

Court's in session (just like school). The end game will arrive eventually. Have a great evening.

I had a feeling where you got the words........

Fair is also in Duty of Fair Representation, right? It's what the jury in PHX had to decide and will in DFR II, right?

That changing CBA makes no difference is you OPINION, which I happen to share. If USAPA can do it, so can ALPA, or maybe more importantly for us, APA.

You are correct that it will end someday, unless events overtake it..........

A good evening to you too.

 

[A320 Driver]

These words are paraphrased from statements made by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. They are the ones that said though not ripe now, would be so later if anything other than the Nic were "negotiated" in the new contract.

This is what the 9th said:

"Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award"

IMO, this opens up the possibility that something other than the NIC might be acceptable to the courts. To meet that test, we have to have a ratified contract with USAPA's seniority proposal in it. Not being the NIC, West is sure to bring DFR II at which point a comparison would have to be completed between USAPA's proposal and the NIC to assess "disadvantages". I don't know what "disadvantages Plaintiffs fear" but if the proposal violates that (whatever it is) then DFR II would be successful...right? I think that is where the fairness issue of the NIC will be tested.

That's the way I read it. IMO, straight DOH would be one of those "disadvantages", so USAPA better come up with something different.

Driver B)

 

[Pi brat]

You talking to your dog again?

It
: referring to something already mentioned - Her dog was howling at the door, so he let it in. The dog, not a cat, stranger, gorilla, etc
: : that one —used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing <took a quick look at the house and noticed it was very old>, <there is a rosebush near the fence and it is now blooming>

Jim

I admit it, she isn't an elementary teacher, just a university English professor. She said only a miserable, old retired pilot with an ax to grind would come to that conclusion, even though I get points take away for my writing.