US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

For me it makes no difference. I don't make false write-ups like you and Wells do. Mine are legit. I don't intentionally ground airplanes at out stations or taxi at a crawl.

The west was not the target of the injunction - the east meaning people like you and Wells, was the target.

Hate the game Pi, not the playa.

You're dismissed as well.

I've never made a false write up in my life dreamin'. Is that an accusation?

 

[Move2CLT]

dupe

Yes you are.

Cleary and company got you good.

 

[A320 Driver]

For me it makes no difference. I don't make false write-ups like you and Wells do. Mine are legit. I don't intentionally ground airplanes at out stations or taxi at a crawl.

The west was not the target of the injunction - the east meaning people like you and Wells, was the target.

Hate the game Pi, not the playa.

You're dismissed as well.

You have a gift for getting under my skin.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hate the game, not the playa I say.

You got a problem with that? Tell it to a judge.

Oh, wait a minute........

 

[cleardirect]

No doubt, it is not a good thing for us. I am curious to see how our request for relief will come out and if it is positive and contradict each other, which will prevail? there was a very good reason that the company filed this injunction in NC. it really improved the odds for them. as far as if/when we bend an aircraft, I think the judge is putting his neck out and no doubt had to consider this. I also would like to see him come out and say 'precisely' what he expects. the reality is that it is hard to stop a wild cat grassroots effort which is what we are seeing. this is not usapa sanctioned. never has been, which is why I don't see this action making any difference at all in behavior. usapa can't stop it any more than the west can. there may be some short term improvement if people lose heart but it will deteriorate again. all they have to do is continue down the failed route that they have selected. there is no upside to their course of discontent.

V

You guys can kick and scream and deny all day long. This is what the judge had to say about if usapa had anything to do with the illegal slowdown or not.

IT DOES NOT MATTER! Does not matter if usapa was involved or not. Usapa has a duty to stop any illegal activity. That is part of the responsibility the CBA takes on. Just like DFR responsibility. So usapa better figure out a way damn quick to stop the illegal activity. Because it will Cleary and usapa that gets hauled in front of the judge. The company will just start fired pilots if the union does not stop it. Not my words not the west's opinion the word of a federal judge and RLA LAW!. Play games all you want. Federal judges make the rules and do not take kindly to people violating them.

Although USAPA has asserted that it cannot be held responsible for the improper acts of
anonymous individuals, this Court concludes that USAPA has ratified, if not authorized, such
acts by knowing about them and failing to take any meaningful action to discourage them. The
connections between the anonymous harassment and USAPA are abundant.

The record also contains evidence that USAPA relied on peer pressure to accomplish its
goals and encouraged its members to do the same. USAPA expressly told its members, for
example, that “[p]eer pressure is very important,” publicly criticized pilots who disregarded its
guidance, and selectively handed out “Safety First” and “I’m on Board” lanyards to pilots who
embraced its agenda. See, e.g., Pl’s Ex. 41 at 10; Pl’s Ex. 42; Pl’s Ex. 13. USAPA can hardly
be surprised that some pilots employed peer pressure after repeatedly encouraging them to do
just that.

To be subject to injunctive relief under the status quo provision of the RLA, it is not
necessary that the union authorize or otherwise ratify a slowdown. It is enough that the union
fail “to exert every reasonable effort to prevent or discourage a strike or a concerted work
action.” See United II, 563 F.3d 257 (upholding the district court’s preliminary injunction
against a pilots’ union where the union authorized a slowdown campaign and did not make
reasonable efforts to halt the pilots’ alleged sick-out)

Thus, even if this court were to conclude that USAPA had
not instigated the slowdown, the association would still have an affirmative duty to exert every
reasonable effort to stop it. See Delta, 238 F.3d at 1310 & n. 22 (“[W]e need not rule on whether
ALPA has ratified the pilots’ actions . . . the duty of ALPA under the RLA is sufficiently high
that even if it has not sponsored or ratified the unlawful job action by the pilots, it has a duty to
end such unlawful action.”);

 

[Pi brat]

You guys can kick and scream and deny all day long. This is what the judge had to say about if usapa had anything to do with the illegal slowdown or not.

IT DOES NOT MATTER! Does not matter if usapa was involved or not. Usapa has a duty to stop any illegal activity. That is part of the responsibility the CBA takes on. Just like DFR responsibility. So usapa better figure out a way damn quick to stop the illegal activity. Because it will Cleary and usapa that gets hauled in front of the judge. The company will just start fired pilots if the union does not stop it. Not my words not the west's opinion the word of a federal judge and RLA LAW!. Play games all you want. Federal judges make the rules and do not take kindly to people violating them.

You must have missed it. USAPA just issued clear cut, non-ambiguous guidance for it's pilots.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, the gang is out in full press mode, pretending that the Judge ordered that serious problems with aircraft can't be written up. Why am I not surprised...children claiming that the big bad bully Judge made them cry...

Welcome to the big leagues, kiddies.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Well, the gang is out in full press mode, pretending that the Judge ordered that serious problems with aircraft can't be written up. Why am I not surprised...children claiming that the big bad bully Judge made them cry...

Welcome to the big leagues, kiddies.

Jim

Damn Jim, Supper lasts a while in the point. Can you answer my questions now?

 

[apollo]

,,,,,##%%^^&&................. Why am I not surprised...,,;;''

Jim

Depends (tm) ?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Can you answer my questions now?

Demanding, aren't you. The east kiddies watched the worst among them play games with fire, but instead of correcting them you ignored them - even enabled them. Now you're crying because they burned you, but instead of blaming the bad apples you're blaming everyone else as usual. Grow up. Inaction can have very real consequences.

Kero - good job coming up a with a list of which only one is debatable - any decent pilot would avoid the rest like the plaque, but for at least half another pilot put you in that situation yet you blame the Judge, company, anybody else.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Demanding, aren't you. The east kiddies watched the worst among them play games with fire, but instead of correcting them you ignored them - even enabled them. Now you're crying because they burned you, but instead of blaming the bad apples you're blaming everyone else as usual. Grow up. Inaction can have very real consequences.

Kero - good job coming up a with a list of which only one is debatable - any decent pilot would avoid the rest like the plaque, but for at least half another pilot put you in that situation yet you blame the Judge, company, anybody else.

Jim

Is that a no Jimbo? They are real simple, you can do it. Afraid? I can understand that, given your history.

 

[Pi brat]

Is that a no Jimbo? They are real simple, you can do it. Afraid? I can understand that, given your history.

Jim? Jim? You are usually so quick.............

 

[cleardirect]

You must have missed it. USAPA just issued clear cut, non-ambiguous guidance for it's pilots.

What does usapa's update have to do with V's statement.

the reality is that it is hard to stop a wild cat grassroots effort which is what we are seeing. this is not usapa sanctioned. never has been, which is why I don't see this action making any difference at all in behavior. usapa can't stop it any more than the west can. there may be some short term improvement if people lose heart but it will deteriorate again. all they have to do is continue down the failed route that they have selected. there is no upside to their course of discontent.

He was under the false impression that if it is grassroots or not sanctioned by usapa it is OK or can continue.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Kero - good job coming up a with a list of which only one is debatable - any decent pilot would avoid the rest like the plaque, but for at least half another pilot put you in that situation yet you blame the Judge, company, anybody else.

Jim

Hey Jim,

Problem with my list is that only number 3 was something that grounded the plane.

Numbers 1, 2 4 and 5 were signed off as legal to go. Number 1 was on the 7th occurance in the current logbook on the a/c. Apparantly they can run it to 20 per engine before pulling it, though i doubt that part was written to include BOTH engines doing it at the same time. The radio one was on its 3rd "ops check ok" only to fail again 5 mins into flight. The flap flutter one I don't know how far it went, when I ended the trip with a second write up a maint. supervisor was down there signing off the book for another go.

These are all "legal" to go per the injunction, and can be used against the pilot group if we question it now.

The really funny part? The trim not matching the indications...was the only one that actually had nothing wrong with the airplane, was a screwed up el cheapo paint job from roswell, they had the 0 in the wrong spot. that plane is now running around with the old zero scratched off and a new zero mark added. But that was the only one that got grounded. (Think there are about 4 in the fleet now with zero trim mark moved)

 

[BoeingBoy]

These are all "legal" to go per the injunction, and can be used against the pilot group if we question it now.

Well, the first assumes that the injunction supplants the FAR's, MEL, etc. Typical east over-response. The second - well, defend the troublemakers and you risk being lumped in with them. Too late to have second thoughts now...

The bottom line is that you're still looking for people to blame instead of blaming those that screwed the pooch.

Jim