US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

Bybee and Wake are Bush Boys. Something that the Bush Boys never understood, is that they can't get inside of a labor unions negotiating process. Never going to happen and something Tashima and Graber fully understood! Aqua, your world is about to rocked by the LOA 93 pay restoration. We told you how this was going to play out and you wouldn't listen. You always tell us to enjoy LOA93................you guys are going to wish you never made that statement.

Hate

The end to this is near. I know you and BS will be the holdouts forever, but when the LOA93 loss is officially released it'll be over. The West is getting tons of jumpseat anecdotes from East pilots who when alone seem to spill their guts and say they've had it. Parker has an injunction to quell any uprising from the delusional faithful who can't handle Kaher's decision, but once those couple of dozen get fired the rest of the company - East and West - will move on.

 

[Hate2fly]

The end to this is near. I know you and BS will be the holdouts forever, but when the LOA93 loss is officially released it'll be over. The West is getting tons of jumpseat anecdotes from East pilots who when alone seem to spill their guts and say they've had it. Parker has an injunction to quell any uprising from the delusional faithful who can't handle Kaher's decision, but once those couple of dozen get fired the rest of the company - East and West - will move on.

aqua,

The east will not be the problem! The west will implode with this decision. You will have to answer to all of your flock. I can't wait to watch for your fund raising efforts when the LOA93 decision comes out. You co-founders are going to have some splaining to do! Team Tempe will have to make some big time decisions going forward.

Hate

 

[nic4us]

Who's ruling stands? So what happens if Silver makes a ruling that is contrary to the opinion of the 9th (Tashima and Graber)?

I bet I know...

Driver 😀

The 9ths ruling stands. Addington was dismissed.

However, being that it was dismissed on the ripeness finding, the merits of the case still stand. A jury verdict was awarded against usapa in record time. The company is aware of that fact and unwilling to collude with usapa in a future DFR.

Silver would be hard pressed to make a ruling contrary to the 9ths ruling in Addington, as the 9th said absolutely nothing about the merits of the case, other than not ripe and why.

Further, ripeness has already been considered in the company DJ. Guess what, it is ripe according to Silver. The company is currently stuck between the threat of a job action from usapa, (really no threat because the NMB will never release a scab union for insisting on an illegal DFR seniority scheme) and a multi-billion dollar lawsuit from the West pilot class.

Also, Callaway is correct. The New York case is relevant, because a dismissal based on findings that it is usapa who is failing to negotiate in good faith, by insisting on a seniority list that has already been found to not pass DFR muster, while simultaneaously attempting to stall the ongoing DJ in another court, would basically answere the same question. That question being, can a union force a corporation to pick up the tab for its illegal behavior? I am guessing the answere will be no.

 

[Hate2fly]

The 9ths ruling stands. Addington was dismissed.

However, being that it was dismissed on the ripeness finding, the merits of the case still stand. A jury verdict was awarded against usapa in record time. The company is aware of that fact and unwilling to collude with usapa in a future DFR.

Silver would be hard pressed to make a ruling contrary to the 9ths ruling in Addington, as the 9th said absolutely nothing about the merits of the case, other than not ripe and why.

Further, ripeness has already been considered in the company DJ. Guess what, it is ripe according to Silver. The company is currently stuck between the threat of a job action from usapa, (really no threat because the NMB will never release a scab union for insisting on an illegal DFR seniority scheme) and a multi-billion dollar lawsuit from the West pilot class.

Also, Callaway is correct. The New York case is relevant, because a dismissal based on findings that it is usapa who is failing to negotiate in good faith, by insisting on a seniority list that has already been found to not pass DFR muster, while simultaneaously attempting to stall the ongoing DJ in another court, would basically answere the same question. That question being, can a union force a corporation to pick up the tab for its illegal behavior? I am guessing the answere will be no.

nic4,

LOA 93 is the game changer! We tried to tell you guys. Everything will change.

Hate

P.S. You guys should have gone to Penn.

 

[Move2CLT]

The whole contract or just the parts that can be fairly characterized as so far outside a ‘wide range of reasonableness,’ that they are wholly ‘irrational’ or ‘arbitrary.’ ?

The WHOLE contract.

You would spend a few more years under LOA93 while it made its way through the courts.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The WHOLE contract.

You would spend a few more years under LOA93 while it made its way through the courts.

Assuming Parker even cut a deal. He won't, and why would he? This airline is perfectly operable under separate ops even with 2/3rds of pilots and F/As on BK contracts. Don't like it? Well, watcha going to do about it East? Or to be more precise, whatcha going to do about it with the Sword of Damocles injunction hanging by a thread over you? Answer: not a damn thing except just take it. You've left yourselves no other choices. Real men of genius you all are.

 

[Schultz]

Assuming Parker even cut a deal. He won't, and why would he? This airline is perfectly operable under separate ops even with 2/3rds of pilots and F/As on BK contracts. Don't like it? Well, watcha going to do about it East? Or to be more precise, whatcha going to do about it with the Sword of Damocles injunction hanging by a thread over you? Answer: not a damn thing except just take it. You've left yourselves no other choices. Real men of genius you all are.

Still, no St. Nick.

 

[nic4us]

aqua,

The east will not be the problem! The west will implode with this decision. You will have to answer to all of your flock. I can't wait to watch for your fund raising efforts when the LOA93 decision comes out. You co-founders are going to have some splaining to do! Team Tempe will have to make some big time decisions going forward.

Hate

I would imagine the West will get quite restless when LOA93 is a loss. The junior West pilots might...might..get restless watching movement on the east, but seing the end game approaching, will likely calm that substantially.

What is going to happen, (and go ahead and bookmark this post) is something to the tune of 300 east pilots are going to leave in the year following the loss, probably a hundred the following week/month. The havoc it will cause on the east is going to really be bad for the east, as the remainder of the LOA93 work rules suck soo bad, the east will be worked to death in the ensuing turmoil. Also, the training dept will go nutso trying to keep up, and the float will cause even more problems.

It is even plausible that the company invokes force majure and the TA's fleet protections go out the window, as do other TA protections such as fleet exclusivity. Training will go wide open on both sides, and it won't much matter whose side of the usapa imposed fence you are on.

 

[nic4us]

Still, no St. Nick.

I would like to point out that the only "Accepted system seniority list at LCC is the Nicolau award".

Try bringing any other list to a merger party and see what the response is from the merging partner.

I am guessing it would go like this.

usapa..."we are going to use a DOH list we made up in a van by the river."

APA......"no we are not, and we are going to staple you in Nic order to the bottom of our list."

or..IBT..ALPA..."no we are not, and once we get single operator certification, we are going to toss your scab union to the curb."

 

[Hate2fly]

I would imagine the West will get quite restless when LOA93 is a loss. The junior West pilots might...might..get restless watching movement on the east, but seing the end game approaching, will likely calm that substantially.

What is going to happen, (and go ahead and bookmark this post) is something to the tune of 300 east pilots are going to leave in the year following the loss, probably a hundred the following week/month. The havoc it will cause on the east is going to really be bad for the east, as the remainder of the LOA93 work rules suck soo bad, the east will be worked to death in the ensuing turmoil. Also, the training dept will go nutso trying to keep up, and the float will cause even more problems.

It is even plausible that the company invokes force majure and the TA's fleet protections go out the window, as do other TA protections such as fleet exclusivity. Training will go wide open on both sides, and it won't much matter whose side of the usapa imposed fence you are on.

nic4,

The company operates perfectly fine present day. USAirways group operates a bunch of wholly owned airlines and will continue to do so. LOA93 will be fine for the east. We have operated on it for years. The pay will be the game changer. Everyone on the east will just smile going through the concourse.

Hate

 

[Move2CLT]

So which of you easties is voting for the IBT. I wonder what national position Cleary is going to get for delivering us to them.

 

[Schultz]

I would like to point out that the only "Accepted system seniority list at LCC is the Nicolau award".

Try bringing any other list to a merger party and see what the response is from the merging partner.

I am guessing it would go like this.

usapa..."we are going to use a DOH list we made up in a van by the river."

APA......"no we are not, and we are going to staple you in Nic order to the bottom of our list."

or..IBT..ALPA..."no we are not, and once we get single operator certification, we are going to toss your scab union to the curb."

OH, Then why the DJ?

 

[Move2CLT]

Still, no St. Nick.

Still, no DOH.
Still LOA93.

 

[Move2CLT]

OH, Then why the DJ?

To have the backing of the courts when the company doesn't move off the Nic.

 

[Schultz]

Still, no DOH.
Still LOA93.

And still no raises for the west.