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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Schultz said:
OH, Then why the DJ?
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Because USAPA and the Company are in mediated talks and a possible outcome of that process is being released to self-help. This is a very unlikely possibility, but the threat of a pilot strike is all Management needs to convince judge Silver that injunctive relief is required. Management has accepted the NIC, but USAPA hasn't yet and the NMB lacks the teeth to tell USAPA to stop trying to violate their DFR. Only a court can do that and the Ninth kicked the can down the street. So now the issue stands before judge Silver who has decided the case is ripe and can proceed on the merits of the plaintiff's case. Have you not been paying attention for the past four years?
 
Schultz said:
And still no raises for the west.
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And still the very bottom of the industry for you.

We got great rigs, vacation, pay is OK. For you though it sucks.

Goes to show how ignorant you guys are. You point out a scrape on our knee while blood pours out of your jugular vein. Pathetic.
Status quo for me is fine. For you, not so much.
 
Move2CLT said:
West Captain = $145

Any other asinine comments Schultz-ee? LMAO.
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10 more days vacation

2 more days off a month on reserve (with extra wes vacation a reserve west pilot has 34 days more off a year while earning much more)

paid cancellation 100%

100% paid deadhead

5.15 daily minimum pay (even if you don't turn a wheel)

Industry leading disability protection
 
aquagreen73s said:
She can't, and she knows it. She said as much at the Feb 9th hearing. It's very clear that the West does not have a ripe claim until there is a ratified contract. Fine. The facts won't change and we'll do it again but next time, there won't be the benefit of a jury for the East. All $eham had to do was to confuse one juror and it would have been a mistrial. Instead, there was a unanimous verdict inside of two hours. The West needed 12 lay people to agree and God knows you never know who you're getting. One judge on the other hand is a whole different story. Even Tashima and Graber get it as to what the East is trying to do, which is why they plainly told USAPA to go back and bargain in good faith for all Airways pilots, otherwise the West will have a painfully ripe DFR. Reality is that he company isn't going to deal absent court immunity. Good luck getting that Parker. So the question becomes: why would Parker agree to give the East a payraise just so he can be a party to a painfully ripe DFR? Do you guys on the East seriously think you'll ever get anywhere? Do you guys have any clue why the company couched their dec action using "non-Nic" instead of DOH? I'll give you a hint: S22 is now an either/or proposition. DOH lite still goes to trial just as fast as DOH. Until this gets through the thicker skulls (not all, but still too many on the East), then you'll languish on LOA93. Those are the facts.
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I'll say it again...you guys sure could save a lot of typing with "NIC or nothing".
 
A320 Driver said:
I'll say it again...you guys sure could save a lot of typing with "NIC or nothing".
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Do you think this east-created mess is still in the negotiation/mediation/arbitration phase? If it was your comment would make some sense. The problem (or one of the many) is that this has moved out of the N/M/A phase and is now really only a matter of law to be determined by the courts. So the "NIC or nothing" viewpoint isn't a negotiating position its a statement of presumed legal fact. If 1,000 or 1,500 west pilots signed an affidavit stating that the NIC wasn't required for their vote on a TA/JCBA, nothing would change. The DFR liability would still remain for both USAPA and Management and nothing short of a ruling on the merits of a SLI question will bring an end to this, unless of course USAPA decides to accept the NIC. So when you guys talk about compromise and resolving this issue outside of court it demonstrates a lack of comprehension of where the locus of the problem is. You can choose to accept that or just keep blaming the west for intransigence, but that won't resolve anything. It doesn't matter if it's a one-line response or a dissertation, the time for a negotiated settlement has passed long ago. Only USAPA can accelerate a resolution outside of the courts and that only by accepting the NIC for section 22.
 
CallawayGolf said:
So when you guys talk about compromise and resolving this issue outside of court it demonstrates a lack of comprehension of where the locus of the problem is. You can choose to accept that or just keep blaming the west for intransigence, but that won't resolve anything. It doesn't matter if it's a one-line response or a dissertation, the time for a negotiated settlement has passed long ago. Only USAPA can accelerate a resolution outside of the courts and that only by accepting the NIC for section 22.
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I see the problem now. You are just so far over my head, that I just can't comprehend the issues like you can. Where I come from, when there is a dispute, the best course of action is to sit down and attempt to find the middle ground. I know, I know, we can't have any of that, can we?

So, if I understand you, the BEST course of action is to withdraw from all litigation, and BOHICA. Lets have the NIC AND LOA93 since it's obvious to me the company is in no hurry for a contract. Make us pay. I get that!

Thanks for the advise!

Driver B)
 
A320 Driver said:
I see the problem now. You are just so far over my head, that I just can't comprehend the issues like you can. Where I come from, when there is a dispute, the best course of action is to sit down and attempt to find the middle ground. I know, I know, we can't have any of that, can we?

So, if I understand you, the BEST course of action is to withdraw from all litigation, and BOHICA. Lets have the NIC AND LOA93 since it's obvious to me the company is in no hurry for a contract. Make us pay. I get that!

Thanks for the advise!

Driver B)
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Ummmm, we had a dispute with integration so we went to mediation and then with arbitration. We agreed to let a third party settle this because months of negs and a huge chunk of change failed to produce a list between us.

Oh, I get it. Is it because it didn't go your way that you want to redo this? How long do you want to keep trying?

And what do you have to offer the west? Sounds a bit one-sided, don't you think?
 
CallawayGolf said:
Do you think this east-created mess is still in the negotiation/mediation/arbitration phase? If it was your comment would make some sense. The problem (or one of the many) is that this has moved out of the N/M/A phase and is now really only a matter of law to be determined by the courts. So the "NIC or nothing" viewpoint isn't a negotiating position its a statement of presumed legal fact. If 1,000 or 1,500 west pilots signed an affidavit stating that the NIC wasn't required for their vote on a TA/JCBA, nothing would change. The DFR liability would still remain for both USAPA and Management and nothing short of a ruling on the merits of a SLI question will bring an end to this, unless of course USAPA decides to accept the NIC. So when you guys talk about compromise and resolving this issue outside of court it demonstrates a lack of comprehension of where the locus of the problem is. You can choose to accept that or just keep blaming the west for intransigence, but that won't resolve anything. It doesn't matter if it's a one-line response or a dissertation, the time for a negotiated settlement has passed long ago. Only USAPA can accelerate a resolution outside of the courts and that only by accepting the NIC for section 22.
Click to expand...


......and that, is not going to happen!

seajay
 
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