US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Try again explain it instead of lying about it.

Apologize first.

 

[luvthe9]

Maybe you will understand it this way. Arbitration is final and binding on people with the integrity to live up to their agreements. If one party decides that the rules don't apply social construct breaks down and it takes awhile to fix the outcast.

Do you think with their track record of following through with deals anyone is anxious to make a bargain with the Palestinians? They have a history of agreeing to “Final and binding” deals and walking away. If the west had known what dishonest and untrustworthy people you east pilots were we may have done things differently. But now we know what and who you are. We will let the federal government deal with you and your kind.

You guys have more scabs than any other airline.Don't even begin to go into integrity. You are a bunch of vultures. Go away.

 

[traderjake]

The 9th said the Nicolau did not have to be used.

The 9 th said it's possible that USAPA could create a list that was not the Nicolau award and did not harm the West.

USAPA could put make all West pilots senior to all East pilots and that would not harm the West, for example.

 

[Move2CLT]

You guys have more scabs than any other airline.Don't even begin to go into integrity. You are a bunch of vultures. Go away.

None represent us and you guys even have one speaking for USAPA.

Talk about a hypocrite. You can leave now.

 

[luvthe9]

Apologize first.

Apologize to the Ansett pilots, then Australia s population. An international plague you are. Flush yourself down the toilet scabs.

 

[luvthe9]

The 9 th said it's possible that USAPA could create a list that was not the Nicolau award and did not harm the West.

USAPA could put make all West pilots senior to all East pilots and that would not harm the West.

USAPA should put all the East pilots ahead of the scabs. Then the East would not be harmed. That is even better. No scabs, no harm.

 

[Claxon]

The 9 th said it's possible that USAPA could create a list that was not the Nicolau award and did not harm the West.

USAPA could put make all West pilots senior to all East pilots and that would not harm the West.

Eastern pilot? You are really not very smart, and incredibly low self esteem to cow tow to the western group that is stealing from you. Why don't you join Franke Air management. They love those who have no self esteem, and build their lives around tyrants like Franke and his disciples. You are what they love, you and Calloway. They will use you, pay you little, and you will like it. You have the qualifications Franke needs for scabbing. You seem to enjoy enslaving yourself to the western disciples. Do you wear an apron at home and heels?

 

[luvn737s]

If Silver says we have to use the NIC we still have a vote on any contract...

So why not present a resolution at the next BPR meeting ordering USAPA to put Kirby+NIC out to a vote? At least you'd have proof to present to Silver that NIC won't pass.

Or will it? You seem to crave and fear the vote in equal measure.

But delivering DOH by denying a vote is a DFR waiting to happen.

 

[traderjake]

You are really not very smart, and incredibly low self esteem to cow tow to the western group that is stealing from you.

It must really p*ss you off that I won't kowtow to you and Cleary.

.

 

[luvn737s]

You are really not very smart, and incredibly low self esteem to cow tow to the western group that is stealing from you.

You must mean kowtow, perfesser! And showing up for work to earn 50% of what you were formerly paid proves you don't think you were ever worth that money in the first place.

Sounds like low self esteem to me.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Merger talks started as early as July 2004

And broke off shortly thereafter. Once the concessions had been put in place, they started again in early 2005. Along with discussions with UA.

There was a plan rock bottom HP wages benefits and work rules

Read your own documents - they say that the US CWA costs were $X higher than a hybrid of B6 and HP. That's your union talking. The same was true for pilots - management wanted costs equal to the average of several low cost carriers. Not HP costs specificly, the the average of several. Even your documents don't mention anything about a merger - not one time. There's a reason for that - unable to find a willing merger partner in 2004, prior to entering bankruptcy, management had no option but to come up with a plan to survive as a stand-alone carrier. But by early 2005 the futility of that plan was obvious and the search for a merger partner resumed. After the concessions and other cost cuts, Parker was interested the second time around and the rest, as they say, is history.

You're trying to support a theory that isn't true and have no evidence that it is true.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

And broke off shortly thereafter. Once the concessions had been put in place, they started again in early 2005. Along with discussions with UA.



Read your own documents - they say that the US CWA costs were $X higher than a hybrid of B6 and HP. That's your union talking. The same was true for pilots - management wanted costs equal to the average of several low cost carriers. Not HP costs specificly, the the average of several. Even your documents don't mention anything about a merger - not one time. There's a reason for that - unable to find a willing merger partner in 2004, prior to entering bankruptcy, management had no option but to come up with a plan to survive as a stand-alone carrier. But by early 2005 the futility of that plan was obvious and the search for a merger partner resumed. After the concessions and other cost cuts, Parker was interested the second time around and the rest, as they say, is history.

You're trying to support a theory that isn't true and have no evidence that it is true.

Jim

That's a +1.

John John, reading is good.

 

[luvn737s]

The only "fair" definition of a merger of two pilot groups I've ever agreed with personally, is one that pisses off both sides roughly equally. Until and unless the powers that be figure out a way to "massage" the NIC, in some manner, to achieve a result considered by a majority of both pilot groups, to equally suck, then it won't be "fair".

When one side outnumbers the other 2-1 one side need only be P-O'd enough to take stupid action like filing for single carrier status and disabling any mechanism for further negotiation.

BS would have you believe that the NIC is merely a crew meal equivalent to be discarded on a whim. If that was true, the founding fumblers that brought you USAPA would never have gone to all the trouble. They would have replaced the ALPA reps and carried out their cabal as an inside job. They know that the truth is that the proscribed procedures contained in the TA (a legal document) were followed and that the Arbitration was a part of that agreement which USAPA inherited as an obligation.

I sincerely feel bad for the east pilots who were carried away by the tide of emotion that lead to USAPA and to some irreversible actions, the consequences of which they will have to live with. But that does not absolve them of the continued responsibility they have and to deal with conditions as they exist to right the wrongs of others and move forward.

 

[crazystnic]

crew news, talk about a bunch of clowns....

how embarassing....

I"m glad Scott called the 1st one out... what was she talking about?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I do not for a second believe it is right for me to expect to take anything from the West pilots, however, I will fight to the last hour to protect the job that I have poured everything into.

You can say that till you're blue in the face, but as long as you support USAPA's list you're lying to yourself and everyone else. USAPA's list allows east pilots to take away the jobs of the west pilots, plain and simple.

Now.....I don't know your history, but I expect it is similar.......You chose and fought for your best route of escape. You probably left here with as much cash as possible, but never worked under LOA93. You and Capt Harry were busy on the ALPA boards. I will not say that you encouraged the LOA93 vote, because I am not sure on that. I flew with Capt Harry just 2 weeks after LOA93 was voted in. He was quite the salesman for LOA93 and did all he could to sell it to the pilots. When I flew with him, he couln't help but brag about how he was all set up for his retirement in just 3 weeks, now that LOA93 was passed. Talk about throwing people under the bus. As for you, I doubt you suffered much from the paycuts and the disaster callled LOA93....so don't judge the rest of us when you haven't walked that road. Whether we voted for or against LOA93, we are stuck with it and it did keep us flying and attracted a merger partner.

You're big on making assumptions about people, assumptions that just happen to give you a rationale for discounting anything they say so you can be warm and fuzzy in your misguided beliefs. I put it bluntly - you don't have a clue how far from the truth you are. But anyone can make assumptions about others - I see you as a greedy bastard who wants to take everything of value from the westies and is so blinded by that greed that you refuse to see the truth.

Jim