US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Rookie Jr]

So what was your stance on the issue? Under the bus...or not? The bully is waiting for your reply.

RR

.... and soon the bully will run home to mommy with a bloody nose claiming it's everyone else's fault.

 

[traderjake]

Do you really think we could keep the Nic but try to fence the west into PHX and they would not still file a DFR?

No.

I was trying to illustate that the East knows C&Rs are worthless because they won't even consider putting them around the Nicolau Award.

 

[Injunction junction]

The very act of "certifying" a list speaks for itself. That process takes place before each merger. But how would an airline that had never merged know that? It is not a midnight raid on the records, it is a labor intensive and complete process, not a snapshot on the day of your choosing. There were, in fact STILL are serious questions remaining at the bottom of our list. Thanks again ALPA.

Since you seem be the broadcaster of all this fantasy, why don't you tell us about when your JNC took confidential materials into the Merger process.

Remember that?...since you seem to be in the know. Maybe you can honestly quote Rowe this time in the context of time and exact place.

RR

Well the answer to your question of how we knew that seeing as how we (AWA) had never been thru a merger is because we did in fact have people on the committee who had been thru a merger. So you see my good sir that even though the airline had not there were people within that had.

The process does not take place prior to the merger but rather the PID does. This is about and how it should have been done but was not. I trust the people that were doing that job and at no time were expectations ever managed. Now with regard to this confidential information that you speak of, do you mind expounding on that because I have no idea what you are talking about and at this juncture I can hardly see how doing so could be harmful.

Look Reed this is not about any fantasy and like I said you need not take my word for it. I have nothing at all to gain by lying to you and even less by asking you to seek out the truth. I can certainly tell you when and where that statement was made. Joint mec meeting CLT NC during Kirby briefing on possible Delta merger. I am not lying to you Reed and if you cant see that by now then there really is no point in our communicating any further.

Injunction

 

[icehead]

Strong words from behind a keyboard. Thanks for proving my point. Nothing but a playground bully.

We don't need to email you. You control nothing anymore. The tyranny of you and your type is coming to an end. All you need to know is that many of us don't agree with your position, and the silent majority are starting to clear their throats. This war you started is finally in it's final days and will end in a contract that benefits the most pilots on this property. Those with unrealistic ideas of entitlement will just have to deal with it.

Something might be coming to an end but I doubt it will be the ongoing dispute. A merger or some other event might change things but other than that I am not so sure the 3rd quarter has even started. I don't have a clue about anything coming to an end, but the legal road map has lots of twists and turns. First and foremost legal delays are good for the stakeholders. It provides perfect cover and saves money. Your vitriol means nothing and changes nothing. There is no war here and entitlement cuts both ways. Its a dispute that will most likely end in court. You make the simple so unnecessarily complicated-we have a dispute and Parker controls the game. Labor strife and division are corporate goals at USAirways, I will concede the dispute makes it easier for them.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA has a $10 billion budget?!! I knew buying those Tauruses was a bad idea. Good thing they let the BPR vote on cell-phone providers so they could balance that budget.

Whopps! Good catch. I meant to type a $10 million per year budget.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I hate to break this to you, but with your history and all the unbiased "facts" that you post that are really questions, most of us put everything you post in the rumor or just flat made up category.

Pi Brat,

Two questions.

1. When have I been wrong?

2. What do you think of John Brookman's LOA 93 testimony? Did he lie when he wrote his ALPA PIT LEC letter to the pilots stating he recommended a "no" vote for LOA 93 because there were no snap backs or did he lie to Board of Arbitration during the LOA 93 arbitration?

Click here to read the story.

USA320Pilot

 

[Code Name V]

You are not paying attention. The west pilots are not going to move one comma from the Nicolau. So hearing from the west pilots on how to structure C&R is not going to happen. There will be no C&R that Nicolau did not put in his award. What are you not understanding about there will be no change, compromise, alteration, C&R, mediation NOTHING to the Nicolau?

As you said yourself C&R can be modified by the company and they have to be tight and watched. Why would the west ever agree to anything that this company could screw the west pilots with? Then have the west pilots rely on usapa to protect us? The same "union" that has been trying to crew us for years would be the same union that would then have to battle the company to keep them from doing exactly what the "union" has been trying to do to us. Sure! usapa will get right on that.

Anything that changes the Nicolau is harm to the west. I have not heard a single thing from the east on how you would improve the Nicolau for the west. The only thing we have ever heard is how you would take from the west to improve the east.

Well at least you are admitting that it takes several years in order to get your contract where it needs to be. AWA is working off our SECOND contract. The pay was always low but the rest of the contract is not bad. As you are learning this management does not like to pay. So all of you can stop with the "you had the worst contract in the industry" crap. We were getting there until you east pilots decided you selfishness was more important than getting improving contracts.

One more time in case you are slow or missed it.


There will be no modification or change or C&R's or anything to the Nicolau award from the west.


So stop asking , begging or hoping that there is any chance. Is that clear enough even for you?

Pretty clear to me. Not quite as clear as 'It doesn't matter'...No need to change anything that will never see the light of day. Besides that, DOH is the basis for USAPA and can not be altered even if someone actually wanted to. No where in the bylaws can you find the term 'Nic'. All that could be done would be to alter the C+Rs. That is the ONLY possibility. You don't want to recognize that; so be it. However, if you want to continue your rant, all you really have to do is convince the 9th to rewrite labor law and the RLA. Why not concentrate on that?

V

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Two questions.

1. When have I been wrong?

Um, oh, wait, I know. Your quote, and it's a classic, "It's a done deal!!". Yeah, that's it. Remember that? Say, summer of 2001.

and, that is a start. You have enemies just on that and that doesn't count all the rest of the garbage you put out.

I, personally, am not your enemy, but, if you were drowning, most I hear from might just as well toss you an anchor than a device that floats, but, I think you already know that.

Try to not shoot the messenger.

 

[eastcoast]

So what was your stance on the issue? Under the bus...or not? The bully is waiting for your reply.

RR

Do you really think everyone is a simpleton like you? That we don't see how you steer questions to get the response you want? Grow up. Your question obviously has a false pretext. My stance on the issue of a decent contract that includes the Nic does not constitute throwing anyone under the bus, just because you say it does. That is YOUR opinion. Nothing more. Yet one more example of the problem that has plagued our pilot group for decades. You continue to want to speak for others and dictate what we should or shouldn't support.

My stance on the issue of the Nicolau is clear. I've stated it in clear and very easy to comprehend language. And no, I do not support throwing anyone under the bus. That includes our counterparts on the west! The Nic is not the travesty that you think it is. Considering our circumstances at the time, the furloughed pilots had very little real expectation of coming back at all. Under Nic they can come back to the position they had, at the bottom, where they were, but with greatly improved pay and working conditions, and still upgrade in due time since Nicolau gave us a majority of the combined upgrades.

Sounds to me like you are the one looking to throw others under the bus. Perhaps to benefit yourself in some hypothetical future merger. So let me ask you an equally loaded (rhetorical) question. Do you support using DOH to steal jobs that rightfully belong to others? Yes or no?

 

[Phoenix]

...The courts have NEVER overturned a final & binding arbitration.......EVER ..

So? Nobody asked the court to overturn an arbitration.

The democratic process under the RLA has already taken a new course in an internal union dispute.

 

[luvn737s]

Pretty clear to me. Not quite as clear as 'It doesn't matter'...No need to change anything that will never see the light of day. Besides that, DOH is the basis for USAPA and can not be altered even if someone actually wanted to. No where in the bylaws can you find the term 'Nic'. All that could be done would be to alter the C+Rs. That is the ONLY possibility. You don't want to recognize that; so be it. However, if you want to continue your rant, all you really have to do is convince the 9th to rewrite labor law and the RLA. Why not concentrate on that?

V

Well, you could (wait for it...)

LAUNCH USAPA

I doubt you'd find many folks opposing that

 

[Injunction junction]

Do you really think everyone is a simpleton like you? That we don't see how you steer questions to get the response you want? Grow up. Your question obviously has a false pretext. My stance on the issue of a decent contract that includes the Nic does not constitute throwing anyone under the bus, just because you say it does. That is YOUR opinion. Nothing more. Yet one more example of the problem that has plagued our pilot group for decades. You continue to want to speak for others and dictate what we should or shouldn't support.

My stance on the issue of the Nicolau is clear. I've stated it in clear and very easy to comprehend language. And no, I do not support throwing anyone under the bus. That includes our counterparts on the west! The Nic is not the travesty that you think it is. Considering our circumstances at the time, the furloughed pilots had very little real expectation of coming back at all. Under Nic they can come back to the position they had, at the bottom, where they were, but with greatly improved pay and working conditions, and still upgrade in due time since Nicolau gave us a majority of the combined upgrades.

Sounds to me like you are the one looking to throw others under the bus. Perhaps to benefit yourself in some hypothetical future merger. So let me ask you an equally loaded (rhetorical) question. Do you support using DOH to steal jobs that rightfully belong to others? Yes or no?

Hmmmm wow Reed, it appears that one of your own has refused to just believe any and everything that comes out of the east mec and usapa as gospel. I dont know but it sure seems that this person decided to do some research in order to see for himself what the REAL DEAL is. That is such a novel concept wouldn't you say, I mean who would have thought that just looking into the subject might give them all the answers they seek?

Research is one hell of a thing my friend, try it then come back and tell us what you learn.

Injunction

 

[luvn737s]

Something might be coming to an end but I doubt it will be the ongoing dispute. A merger or some other event might change things but other than that I am not so sure the 3rd quarter has even started. I don't have a clue about anything coming to an end, but the legal road map has lots of twists and turns. First and foremost legal delays are good for the stakeholders. It provides perfect cover and saves money. Your vitriol means nothing and changes nothing. There is no war here and entitlement cuts both ways. Its a dispute that will most likely end in court. You make the simple so unnecessarily complicated-we have a dispute and Parker controls the game. Labor strife and division are corporate goals at USAirways, I will concede the dispute makes it easier for them.

C;mon, you voted to create the most destructive thing to happen to pilot labor since Lorenzo and now you want to wash your hands? Really, you're a victim too? Really?

Moral equivalency - fail

 

[traderjake]

So? Nobody asked the court to overturn an arbitration.

The democratic process under the RLA has already taken a new course in an internal union dispute.

More USAPA fairy tales.

USAPA is trying to overturn an arbitration and the courts will decide if they can during the DFR lawsuit.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

USAPA is trying to overturn an arbitration and the courts will decide if they can during the DFR lawsuit.

I know we have some slow ones in the east, and, certainly, you seem to be among them.

USAPA is not trying to overturn the "Nicholau". It would be wasted effort. You would be shooting a dead horse.

The "Nicholau" and the other two requirements for transition agreement fulfillment are dead and buried. Forever. Why would one exhume the dead just to "kill it"? Again.

Constructing C&R to protect the west pilots would be a constructive start instead of whining about something that will never occur.