US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

In addition, the Ninth Circuit found that the dispute arose in the context of unfinished,
post-merger bargaining with the Company. 606 F.3d at 1177. In addressing the fact that, due to
the unratifiable nature of the Nicolau Award, the judiciary could not “fashion a remedy that
alleviates Plaintiffs’ harm” id. at 1180, the Ninth Circuit necessarily addressed the harm to the
Company arising from a futile bargaining process. Neither USAPA nor the Company can be
expected to interminably bang their head against the wall by negotiating over an unratifiable
contract – which is precisely why the Company previously encouraged ALPA’s efforts at
compromise. (See Doc. # 39-5).
Significantly, in his recent rejection of the Addington plaintiffs’ 60(B) motion, Judge
Wake greeted with great skepticism the Company’s current allegations of harm in view of the
Company’s successful effort to remove itself from the prior Addington litigation:
[T]he hardship to the Airline was there when they asked to be dismissed out of this
case. They, for whatever reasons, rather than counterclaiming for declaratory venue,
they decided they didn't want to be involved. MM!

Even more fundamentally, the TA, pursuant to section XII.B, is open for modification by
USAPA and the Company. (Doc. # 34-2 at 15). Indeed, pursuant to section XII.E.1 of the TA,
it is open for termination, hence it is no firm goal-post to hitch a case or controversy to. (Id. at
16).
6 The Company admits the dispute is contractual in nature by arguing that the West pilot
litigation threat is viable because the “Transition Agreement … required ALPA to present and
US Airways to accept the Nicolau Award [and that] such tendering and acceptance of the
Nicolau Award has occurred in accordance with the terms of the Transition Agreement …”
(Resp. 22:2). Of course, the ultimate goal under both the TA and Section 2, First of the RLA is
to reach a ratifiable collective bargaining agreement – not to extend the multi-year impasse over
a single non-ratifiable bargaining proposal.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

This has been explained several times. If you can't understand this simple concept yet you are beyond help and a waste of time saying it again.

Then we agree on the Time issue, we have plenty of it ! HAPPY HOLIDAYS! MM!

 

[Reed Richards]

There is no way you can fool a court of the intent of usapa creation. Just keep on wishing and maybe even click your heels together and say there's no place like home cause you are certainly in OZ now.

AWA320

The "intent of USAPA creation," as you put it...is off the table. Perhaps just another nuance you missed from the Ninth.

RR

 

[767jetz]

Your diatribe falls on deaf ears, I don't remember 1 post about CUTTING the WEST out of profit sharing, if their was one pleez repost it! MM!

Perhaps not from you, but from several others. Here's a recent one.

Believe me, there was every intention NOT to pay them if could have been pulled off.

There was much gloating on the subject as people were being "told how it was gonna go down." Don't need to sift through 300 pages to find the posts. Anyone who reads this thread regularly has seen them. The fact that you ignore simple truths is no surprise.

 

[Reed Richards]

No I dont have my career expectation as you stole that!! We had a deal on 757's but you stole them and ran. We had a deal on the e190's but you stole them and ran!! We had a deal on seniority but you stole and RAN!!! Management is laughing you got that right they get to laugh everytime they cut you paycheck that's less than mine!!

AWA320

I will have to look at my old notes. I thought at least one (and maybe both) of those deals (the 757's and 190's) went to....are you ready now...binding federal arbitration under the RLA. What I do remember clearly was the East MEC shaking their heads in disbelief after the award, whatever the source. The West ended up with less than they were offered at the table prior to arbitration. Maybe you should talk to a West MEC member who was on the force in 2006, maybe he can fill you/me in on the exact order of events.

And we had no deal on seniority with you. That is actually still in the works, and will eventually (7 or 8 years from now) be ratified by all the members in good standing, followed shortly by DFR II.

RR

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Perhaps not from you, but from several others. Here's a recent one.



There was much gloating on the subject as people were being "told how it was gonna go down." Don't need to sift through 300 pages to find the posts. Anyone who reads this thread regularly has seen them. The fact that you ignore simple truths is no surprise.

Well since their was much gloating( you only found1 post says volume JETZ) The simple truth was 1 post maybe 3 .Bottom line spin it how you want! ( another I opened my mouth and can't back it up JETZ)Since you've dubbed yourself "simple truth " consider yourself ignorable! MM!,

 

[luvthe9]

And you wonder why we left ALPA, John Prater is true scum, reprinted with permmission. We all read about the agreement that Mike Cleary on behalf of USAPA got with TSA's head Pistole. But there was more to the story then you may have heard.

Mike had several conversations with Pistole's right hand man prior to his appearance on Fox News. TSA wanted to know from Mike what they could do to alleviate the problems that Mike was expressing and about to tell the world on Fox as regard to the TSA's new enhanced security screening for the flight crews.

Through tough negotiations and with the BPR's approval, Mike was able to get an agreement from the TSA on a program that will eventually allow airline pilots to bi-pass normal security at no cost to the pilots.

However, after an agreement was reached, Pistole got a call from none other then John Prater.

So as not to have that new "up-start" union USAPA show the great and mighty ALPA up, Prater offered to have the pilots pay for half the cost of the new CrewPASS program. That equates to about $35.00 a month per pilot.

Then Prater on behalf of ALPA released a press release telling the world what a great job he did getting an agreement with the TSA.

Now you might ask yourself why would Prater offer the government your money? Remember who you are thinking about. ALPA is connected to the AFL-CIO, which is connected to the hip of this administration. It's not a secret. So, imagine what a nice feather in the cap of John Prater on behalf of ALPA if they can save the government millions of dollars a year. Instead, we will pay those millions to come to work.

Perhaps there will be a nice place for John Prater in the government at some time in the future. After all, that seems to be the pattern with ALPA's leadership.

But Mike Cleary did an outstanding job in fighting for the pilots here and everywhere else. It's nice to have someone in our corner instead of someone that is trying to kiss up for a higher position.

 

[AWA320]

The "intent of USAPA creation," as you put it...is off the table. Perhaps just another nuance you missed from the Ninth.

RR

Instead of YOUR words show us what the 9th said!!!

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

I will have to look at my old notes. I thought at least one (and maybe both) of those deals (the 757's and 190's) went to....are you ready now...binding federal arbitration under the RLA. What I do remember clearly was the East MEC shaking their heads in disbelief after the award, whatever the source. The West ended up with less than they were offered at the table prior to arbitration. Maybe you should talk to a West MEC member who was on the force in 2006, maybe he can fill you/me in on the exact order of events.

And we had no deal on seniority with you. That is actually still in the works, and will eventually (7 or 8 years from now) be ratified by all the members in good standing, followed shortly by DFR II.

RR

Well again since I was there and again you were not I completely remember the deal and what the east wanted to give us!! That was pay protection which as you probably are not aware is not at the discretion of the east so again tell me how we got less??? I know because you stole every seat!!!

What else you got???

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

And you wonder why we left ALPA, John Prater is true scum, reprinted with permmission. We all read about the agreement that Mike Cleary on behalf of USAPA got with TSA's head Pistole. But there was more to the story then you may have heard.

Mike had several conversations with Pistole's right hand man prior to his appearance on Fox News. TSA wanted to know from Mike what they could do to alleviate the problems that Mike was expressing and about to tell the world on Fox as regard to the TSA's new enhanced security screening for the flight crews.

Through tough negotiations and with the BPR's approval, Mike was able to get an agreement from the TSA on a program that will eventually allow airline pilots to bi-pass normal security at no cost to the pilots.

However, after an agreement was reached, Pistole got a call from none other then John Prater.

So as not to have that new "up-start" union USAPA show the great and mighty ALPA up, Prater offered to have the pilots pay for half the cost of the new CrewPASS program. That equates to about $35.00 a month per pilot.

Then Prater on behalf of ALPA released a press release telling the world what a great job he did getting an agreement with the TSA.

Now you might ask yourself why would Prater offer the government your money? Remember who you are thinking about. ALPA is connected to the AFL-CIO, which is connected to the hip of this administration. It's not a secret. So, imagine what a nice feather in the cap of John Prater on behalf of ALPA if they can save the government millions of dollars a year. Instead, we will pay those millions to come to work.

Perhaps there will be a nice place for John Prater in the government at some time in the future. After all, that seems to be the pattern with ALPA's leadership.

But Mike Cleary did an outstanding job in fighting for the pilots here and everywhere else. It's nice to have someone in our corner instead of someone that is trying to kiss up for a higher position.

I might believe you guys if you didnt LIE, CHEAT and STEAL. Show us the proof of this and I will believe you. Other than that you are just doing what the east does best. LIE!!!!

AWA320

 

[cleardirect]

I will have to look at my old notes. I thought at least one (and maybe both) of those deals (the 757's and 190's) went to....are you ready now...binding federal arbitration under the RLA. What I do remember clearly was the East MEC shaking their heads in disbelief after the award, whatever the source. The West ended up with less than they were offered at the table prior to arbitration. Maybe you should talk to a West MEC member who was on the force in 2006, maybe he can fill you/me in on the exact order of events.

And we had no deal on seniority with you. That is actually still in the works, and will eventually (7 or 8 years from now) be ratified by all the members in good standing, followed shortly by DFR II.

RR

The 757 deal was an agreement between the 2 MEC's. The 190 deal is an arbitration between the 2 pilot groups.

Please answer this question. Is the 190 arbitration still valid?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Prater is a scumbag, but other than that, I don't believe a word of that story about Cleary and the TSA. At best, it may be based on a nugget or two of truth, severely twisted and embellished, as usual.

 

[Pi brat]

I might believe you guys if you didnt LIE, CHEAT and STEAL. Show us the proof of this and I will believe you. Other than that you are just doing what the east does best. LIE!!!!

AWA320

AWA320 and cleardirect, I hear there is a new 12 step program starting on Jan 2 in PHX. Let me give you the first line when you get up to speak:

"Hi. My name is XXX and I AM an angry F/O."

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

AWA320 and cleardirect, I hear there is a new 12 step program starting on Jan 2 in PHX. Let me give you the first line when you get up to speak:

"Hi. My name is XXX and I AM an angry F/O."

12 steps won't cut it ! MM! BTW your lying PI it starts on the 3rd!

 

[AWA320]

12 steps won't cut ! MM!

There's that FEAR again showing its head. I know you can feel it right? that very short hurddle of "Mr Parker this court can not offer LCC indemnity" and just like that your worst fear comes crashing thru. I can feel the fear in you as you comment about 12 step programs and flying ability. FEAR

AWA320