US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

BTW, I'm grossing over $110K this year and worked a total of 3 four day trips all year that didn't lay over at home! Thank God for PBS!

This goes to show that you are working under your best contract while we are working under our worst. Better than the east does not equal good. I think I hit that W2 around 1992 or 1993 as a 737 F/O.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I guess I was not clear. Under current RLA case law, the courts will not tell the Union or the Company how to bargain.

RR - does "bargain" mean that the company has to agree to everything the union demands or can the company reject something the union insists on?

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

You are so lame.

Ah, another insightful post from a westie whose family tree is probably a little straight up. Why do my questions bother you? If it is an impossibility, just say "No, she can't".

 

[OTTER574]

And you get to determine that only after the dirty deed. So says the Ninth, backed up by SCOTUS, and soon Silver.

RR

The company has a very strong say in this now. Company lawyer Robert Siegel was very telling of the companies responsibilities concerning the TA in front of Judge Silver. They have accepted the NIC and consider it FINAL AND BINDING on all parties.

usapa's illegal job action and a Federal Injunction does not bode well for any leverage going forward.

OTTER

 

[Pi brat]

First, one has to define what something is the end of, or glean that from context. I think that the westies are saying that the DJ will be the end of the Nic fight. An appeal to the 9th, if requested to be expedited by the parties (USAPA may wish to delay but they would have to file the appeal if they lose in Silver's courtroom), would be fairly quick compared to getting a contract. SCOTUS is unlikely to take the case, just as it was unlikely to take the Addington but it could take some time for that to make itself clear. Like ripeness, a DJ setting out a parties rights/responsibilities as a party to a contract is a routine matter, not groundbreaking, which is why the 9th and SCOTUS very unlikely to get involved.

I don't think any westie believes, or means to imply, that Silver will put a combined contract in place and deny a chance for membership ratification of that contract. All I think she'll do is tell the company what their obligation is in respect to the TA as it applies to the Nic.

Jim

So not really the end, but the end with the end shortly behind it. Okay.

 

[aquagreen73s]

This goes to show that you are working under your best contract while we are working under our worst. Better than the east does not equal good. I think I hit that W2 around 1992 or 1993 as a 737 F/O.

Yeah, and what are you pulling in now and how much blood does it take to get it?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

This goes to show that you are working under your best contract while we are working under our worst. Better than the east does not equal good. I think I hit that W2 around 1992 or 1993 as a 737 F/O.

When was your best contract signed?

Since when have you been working under your best contract ?

When will you have an "Industry Leading" contract?

You control the union.

When?

 

[Reed Richards]

Okay, so here is another question. If you are on the money, can Judge Silver say to the company "None of the above"? I'm going to give you count 4.

By that I mean that she says "This is the good old USA and anyone can sue any day, so I cannot give you immunity. But you are required by the RLA to negotiate every section of the contract with the CBA. You signed a poorly worded document, live with it. If you have one group of employees saying that the other is not right and will sue, NEGOTIATE with you CBA to see if you can overcome those fears. If not, when you have everything else done and the CBA still wants DOH in section 22 then you decide if you want to take a strike or face the DFR with plausible deniability that it wasn't YOU that did this and they should sue their union."

Pi, I actually have no idea what Judge Silver will do.

But I ponder..would a Court give a pass any Company or Union on a future product unseen?

I say no, though many would argue she could give them a pass on the NIC alone. Later down the road, that still looks like a court telling parties what they have to negotiate towards. I don’t see it.

My guess all said and done is she gives USAPA, and maybe even the Company a strong dressing down and tells them to get back to the table. She could give her opinions in dicta about possible DFR’s going forward..but even the Ninth only said when the DFR was ripe, not valid.

RR

 

[nic4us]

RR - does "bargain" mean that the company has to agree to everything the union demands or can the company reject something the union insists on?

Jim

It is a waste of time.

He is going to come back and tell you that the company has to agree, because if they refuse that would be the same as not allowing a union freedom to bargain.

 

[Pi brat]

Yeah, and what are you pulling in now and how much blood does it take to get it?

Again, you missed my point, but if you want to play the "show me yours" game I should come in about 25% higher than you this year. No blood. The first half of the year was busy but now that we are properly staffed I spent no nights away from home last month.

A while back you made the claim that you were doing as well as a east reserve captain. I called you on it, but huh, you never responded.

My point was that while the west pay rates are better than the east, neither are worth bragging over.

 

[OTTER574]

Are all of you out there related? I'm not arguing that? I asking about the final act in the play and when it happens, not what the play is. That is what you keep going back to. WE HAVE WON! WE HAVE WON!

Geez! Just don't reply back.

A union that treats it members fairly without DFR threat. WOW, What a concept?

Please stop making up the questions as you go along..it's getting old.

No, we haven't won anything except to tell a company and a union they must honor OUR CONTRACT!

OTTER

 

[Pi brat]

When was your best contract signed?

Since when have you been working under your best contract ?

When will you have an "Industry Leading" contract?

You control the union.

When?

You too missed the point. SHOCKER!!!

-A while ago.
-Unless we merge with someone else I doubt ever/
-I certainly don't control the union, they don't listen to me anymore than they do you. One man, one vote.
-Already answered.

Maybe you need another break. You seem really tense.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi, I actually have no idea what Judge Silver will do.

But I ponder..would a Court give a pass any Company or Union on a future product unseen?

I say no, though many would argue she could give them a pass on the NIC alone. Later down the road, that still looks like a court telling parties what they have to negotiate towards. I don’t see it.

My guess all said and done is she gives USAPA, and maybe even the Company a strong dressing down and tells them to get back to the table. She could give her opinions in dicta about possible DFR’s going forward..but even the Ninth only said when the DFR was ripe, not valid.

RR

Thanks, anyone else?

 

[Pi brat]

A union that treats it members fairly without DFR threat. WOW, What a concept?

Please stop making up the questions as you go along..it's getting old.

No, we haven't won anything except to tell a company and a union they must honor OUR CONTRACT!

OTTER

If you don't like the questions, don't read them. Don't reply. Or put me on ignore. Otherwise I will ask whatever I want. Asking questions has helped me understand things better, often from west posters. Just not you..................

You've won nothing yet. Maybe just that close, but not yet.

 

[Reed Richards]

RR - does "bargain" mean that the company has to agree to everything the union demands or can the company reject something the union insists on?

Jim

Of course not. But in the end the courts do not "settle" labor agreements. What was that one word the Ninth judge used as to the process, interminable..or something.

If the Government (Courts) want to get involved, they can allow or speed up (?) the bargaining process..mediation, work action, etc by allowing such events to move forward (again..read RLA)

Even in BK, the courts did not impose contracts on us..although some would argue they indeed did by way of a gun to our careers.

What else can I say. I don't think the courts can impose contracts between the parties. We have already seen that as law, guess we will eventually find out if it holds up.

RR