US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Happy 2012 to all in the pilot thread even my buddy move2charlotte 😀 I hope this is the year you folks can figure out a way to solve this thing & that this is the year I can join my good friend boeing boy in retirement.

Happy New Year Harry and I hope we can meet up before you go.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Happy New Year Harry and I hope we can meet up before you go.

That should not be to hard to do.

 

[Metroyet]

Sounds like a great plan to me uhaul.

Supporting Cleary is the only logical choice for West pilots. Unless of course the majority East is ready to vote away the pointless DOH clause in the cbl and elect a sane bpr and president. Unlikely imo. So what's the difference? One DOH Easthole is just like another. The West will stick with El Presidente looney toons.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sounds like a great plan to me uhaul.

You don't have to tell me that hair Pi. I already know.

 

[Move2CLT]

Happy 2012 to all in the pilot thread even my buddy move2charlotte 😀 I hope this is the year you folks can figure out a way to solve this thing & that this is the year I can join my good friend boeing boy in retirement.

We figured it out a long time ago. We stuck to our end of final and binding.

Let's hope the east figures it out in the new year because it's costing them a lot of money.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I guess you and Jim see things differently. He says a company does not have to agree to things in negotiations, while you are saying the noted RLA lawyer Siegel had to go to court in order to get an answer to another lawyers claim that they did. If that happened every time there was a difference of opinion, we would be in court on everything. And, it's not perjury to ask a question, even if I think the party asking the question knows the answer. Do you think that people in this country really only file suits for the reasons they claim?

I don't know what the real reason is. Maybe it is just as the company claims, but it seems a little suspicious at this late date.

I don't believe Management has to file a DJ with every legal question that may come up. However, when the Mediator can release a key labor group if there is some doubt about the company's legal interpretation, then this is a very serious issue that requires a serious response to avoid unnessary interruption in operations and significant financial harm. I guess they could have hoped that the mediator would see their position, but the downside risk of that strategy was far worse than going to court on a DJ. IMO it was a sound and necessary decision given the high stakes game USAPA has forced everyone into playing.

 

[Pi brat]

I don't believe Management has to file a DJ with every legal question that may come up. However, when the Mediator can release a key labor group if there is some doubt about the company's legal interpretation, then this is a very serious issue that requires a serious response to avoid unnessary interruption in operations and significant financial harm. I guess they could have hoped that the mediator would see their position, but the downside risk of that strategy was far worse than going to court on a DJ. IMO it was a sound and necessary decision given the high stakes game USAPA has forced everyone into playing.

Ah yes, that's it CG, the company is worried about the mediator releasing us. In an election year. With the huge gap we have in other issues. Thanks for the laugh.

Happy New Year to you.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Ah yes, that's it CG, the company is worried about the mediator releasing us. In an election year. With the huge gap we have in other issues. Thanks for the laugh.

Happy New Year to you.

It's on page 13 of the MTD hearing on February 9th. If an impass is declared, then the mediator can release the parties to self help. This potential liability is cited by Management, and Silver clearly affirmed the viability of this by not dismissing the case. Then she went even further to state that there was no doubt that the Company's claim was ripe and a model of why the DJ law was established in the first place. You may not believe it was a viable possibility but Siegel testified that it is and judge Silver confirmed this in her ruling.

How much more objective proof do you need? Besides, you are dismantling your original argument that this was all about Management perpetuating a delay to their advantage. If the parties were as far apart as you say and no possibility existed for being released to self-help in the foreseeable future, then why did they take the action now instead of waiting until a real threat of being released was at hand? Wouldn't that have maximized the delay in comparison to filing the DJ in 2010 when there was no threat as you claim? If delay was the objective then this was a major Management blunder by your logic. Or, it could be just as the company's counsel claimed in court under threat of perjury.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It's on page 13 of the MTD hearing on February 9th. If an impass is declared, then the mediator can release the parties to self help. This potential liability is cited by Management, and Silver clearly affirmed the viability of this by not dismissing the case. Then she went even further to state that there was no doubt that the Company's claim was ripe and a model of why the DJ law was established in the first place. You may not believe it was a viable possibility but Siegel testified that it is and judge Silver confirmed this in her ruling.

How much more objective proof do you need? Besides, you are dismantling your original argument that this was all about Management perpetuating a delay to their advantage. If the parties were as far apart as you say and no possibility existed for being released to self-help in the foreseeable future, then why did they take the action now instead of waiting until a real threat of being released was at hand? Wouldn't that have maximized the delay in comparison to filing the DJ in 2010 when there was no threat as you claim? If delay was the objective then this was a major Management blunder by your logic. Or, it could be just as the company's counsel claimed in court under threat of perjury.

Maybe all that is correct, what the company is sayingin the DJ. I think the real story is what the company IS NOT saying, and never will. In my opinion they mishandled the issue from day one of usapa, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Pi brat]

It's on page 13 of the MTD hearing on February 9th. If an impass is declared, then the mediator can release the parties to self help. This potential liability is cited by Management, and Silver clearly affirmed the viability of this by not dismissing the case. Then she went even further to state that there was no doubt that the Company's claim was ripe and a model of why the DJ law was established in the first place. You may not believe it was a viable possibility but Siegel testified that it is and judge Silver confirmed this in her ruling.

How much more objective proof do you need? Besides, you are dismantling your original argument that this was all about Management perpetuating a delay to their advantage. If the parties were as far apart as you say and no possibility existed for being released to self-help in the foreseeable future, then why did they take the action now instead of waiting until a real threat of being released was at hand? Wouldn't that have maximized the delay in comparison to filing the DJ in 2010 when there was no threat as you claim? If delay was the objective then this was a major Management blunder by your logic. Or, it could be just as the company's counsel claimed in court under threat of perjury.

You know CG I kinda thought you didn't have a sense of humor, but you are being quite the comedian today.

Perjury is your word, not mine. I have no doubt that everything in the filing is possible, I just don't think it probably and even it was, what's to fear? As I said, little chance of being released anytime soon. Even USAPA seems to think we will get parked instead. Then there is the 50lb sledgehammer hanging over USAPA's head, the injunction. Then, even if we were to get released, what's the company's fear? A strike? with 1700 west pilots vowing to cross the picket line? The company could then impose a contract, right? Again, what's to fear? A meteor hitting Tempe is possible and if Doug stated that in court it wouldn't be perjury. I think Doug probably worries as much about that as a strike by USAPA.

No, I'm thinking that last year when this was filed the company did have to settle this, but what better way to settle it than to file another lawsuit and drag things out another couple of years and THEN really start negotiating. Remember, negotiating is not the same as just saying yes. Call me skeptical, but we will never know.

 

[Res Judicata]

You know CG I kinda thought you didn't have a sense of humor, but you are being quite the comedian today.

Perjury is your word, not mine. I have no doubt that everything in the filing is possible, I just don't think it probably and even it was, what's to fear? As I said, little chance of being released anytime soon. Even USAPA seems to think we will get parked instead. Then there is the 50lb sledgehammer hanging over USAPA's head, the injunction. Then, even if we were to get released, what's the company's fear? A strike? with 1700 west pilots vowing to cross the picket line? The company could then impose a contract, right? Again, what's to fear? A meteor hitting Tempe is possible and if Doug stated that in court it wouldn't be perjury. I think Doug probably worries as much about that as a strike by USAPA.

No, I'm thinking that last year when this was filed the company did have to settle this, but what better way to settle it than to file another lawsuit and drag things out another couple of years and THEN really start negotiating. Remember, negotiating is not the same as just saying yes. Call me skeptical, but we will never know.

Actually USAPA fought it and filed a motion to dismiss. As per normal, USAPA failed burning an entire year in the process. There's only one side here that doesn't want this question answered ASAP. Can you guess who?

 

[767one]

You know CG I kinda thought you didn't have a sense of humor, but you are being quite the comedian today.

Perjury is your word, not mine. I have no doubt that everything in the filing is possible, I just don't think it probably and even it was, what's to fear? As I said, little chance of being released anytime soon. Even USAPA seems to think we will get parked instead. Then there is the 50lb sledgehammer hanging over USAPA's head, the injunction. Then, even if we were to get released, what's the company's fear? A strike? with 1700 west pilots vowing to cross the picket line? The company could then impose a contract, right? Again, what's to fear? A meteor hitting Tempe is possible and if Doug stated that in court it wouldn't be perjury. I think Doug probably worries as much about that as a strike by USAPA.

No, I'm thinking that last year when this was filed the company did have to settle this, but what better way to settle it than to file another lawsuit and drag things out another couple of years and THEN really start negotiating. Remember, negotiating is not the same as just saying yes. Call me skeptical, but we will never know.

I think I would label you a realist after reading your post.

Happy new year!

 

[Pi brat]

Actually USAPA fought it and filed a motion to dismiss. As per normal, USAPA failed burning an entire year in the process. There's only one side here that doesn't want this question answered ASAP. Can you guess who?

The company. If they really wanted it settle why didn't they say "Let's negotiate, like we have to, but anything less for the west pilots is off the table. Don't like it? I guess we are at an impasse, or you sue."

Really Res. You've been one of USAPA biggest critics. What does the company have to fear?

 

[767one]

That should not be to hard to do.

Harry,

I hope to see you also. I've only had two trips through CLT this year and I'll be out of hear Dec 12 if I can hang in. If I do get to CLT I'll see if you're around.

Happy new year,


Bob

 

[Pi brat]

I think I would label you a realist after reading your post.

Happy new year!

Happy New Year Bob!