US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

Like I said, you weren't off.

Congrats on the luck.

Pay sucks though.

East or west, the pay sucks. That's why we need a union that won't negotiate an even cr@pier contract.

 

[Beancounter]

Not sure I would call it luck. There were 52 first officers on the Airbus in CLT that flew less than I did for December. I agree that the pay certainly could be more. That's why I bid the 757/767 effective March. 9th year pay on the 757/767 in the east pays more than 15 year F/O position pay on the west. Not that that is something to brag about. Just shows how much west pay sucks too.

I actually enjoy reserve. I bid for the days off that I want (generally weekends and holidays) and every day that I don't have to work when i'm on call is a bonus. With deadhead going above guarantee i've averaged 82 hours of pay per month for the year while flying an average of 35 to 40 hours a month (that's an average of working 6 or 7 days a month). I spend a lot of time on the golf course, on the lake, and enjoying time with family and friends. If you live where you are based, reserve can be a good thing. Why would I want to bust my ass and work an extra 9 days per month for an extra $6,000 per year (pretax) (5 hours more per month).

In my opinion, top reserve is better than junior lineholder if you are looking for quality of life. It just requires living in base. Lucky for me...I grew up here.

I agree about the QOL, but your reserve system must be better. The difference between pay on reserve and holding a line is big on the west.

 

[GuntherA320]

Off December 6th till' January 3rd. It's a good thing the east has a lot of fortitude, because I think separate ops forever sounds just great 🙂 Happy New Year!

I agree Mr Bean......Separate ops will be what we have for the next few years at the very least. That suits me just fine. I will vote for quality of life over a few shekels of pay any day of the week.

 

[Beancounter]

I agree Mr Bean......Separate ops will be what we have for the next few years at the very least. That suits me just fine. I will vote for quality of life over a few shekels of pay any day of the week.

Slowly, more and more of the west pilots are coming around after they see what the NAC is doing. Even with the NIC in it I wouldn't touch what they're conjuring up with a ten foot pole. I don't know, maybe they're trying to draft a poison pill they know we won't want? A toast to seperate ops for many years to come.

PS I sure wish I had Rowan Atkinson's money and car collection 😀

 

[Phoenix]

Not sure I would call it luck. There were 52 first officers on the Airbus in CLT that flew less than I did for December. I agree that the pay certainly could be more. That's why I bid the 757/767 effective March. 9th year pay on the 757/767 in the east pays more than 15 year F/O position pay on the west. Not that that is something to brag about. Just shows how much west pay sucks too.

I actually enjoy reserve. I bid for the days off that I want (generally weekends and holidays) and every day that I don't have to work when i'm on call is a bonus. With deadhead going above guarantee i've averaged 82 hours of pay per month for the year while flying an average of 35 to 40 hours a month (that's an average of working 6 or 7 days a month). I spend a lot of time on the golf course, on the lake, and enjoying time with family and friends. If you live where you are based, reserve can be a good thing. Why would I want to bust my ass and work an extra 9 days per month for an extra $6,000 per year (pretax) (5 hours more per month).

In my opinion, top reserve is better than junior lineholder if you are looking for quality of life. It just requires living in base. Lucky for me...I grew up here.

Ha! He thinks your pay sucks because you are playing golf and getting paid USAir wages instead of Tiger Woods income?

 

[GuntherA320]

I agree about the QOL, but your reserve system must be better. The difference between pay on reserve and holding a line is big on the west.

The difference I think comes from a couple of different things. Deadhead over and above guarantee is huge for a reserve in the East. We call it deadheading for dollars. I had one month last year that I received 96 hours of credit and only worked 35 hours. Generally a short call reserve will get one or two deadheads a month. That can take your pay up from a guarantee of 76 hours to anywhere from 78 to 85 hours of credit depending on how much deadheading you get.

I'm not sure how it works on the west, but recurrent training is pay no credit on the east.....so that is 8 1/2 hours of pay goes on top of guarantee for the month that it's in. Instead of 76....even without any deadhead, you get paid 84.5 that month.

The other i believe is that the west line holders tend to fly more hours than the east line holders. I have seen where some West pilots claim to fly 95 to 96 hours a month for the entire year. East line holders generally fly about 85 hours per month for the year. Again....that's a quality of life issue.

 

[GuntherA320]

Slowly, more and more of the west pilots are coming around after they see what the NAC is doing. Even with the NIC in it I wouldn't touch what they're conjuring up with a ten foot pole. I don't know, maybe they're trying to draft a poison pill they know we won't want? A toast to seperate ops for many years to come.

PS I sure wish I had Rowan Atkinson's money and car collection 😀

Sadly, Nicolau aside......This management group doesn't want a pilot contract. I honestly believe that if the negotiating committee was made up of 5 west pilots and 0 east pilots with the Nicolau included the company would find another reason not to negotiate. They are happy to have us at each others throats.

 

[GuntherA320]

Ha! He thinks your pay sucks because you are playing golf and getting paid USAir wages instead of Tiger Woods income?

Well I did make $60 in the dogfight last week. But I don't think i'm ready to turn pro just yet. 🙄


PS.....for those of you that don't know what a dogfight is in golf.....please look it up before you claim that i'm Michael Vick.

 

[Beancounter]

The difference I think comes from a couple of different things. Deadhead over and above guarantee is huge for a reserve in the East. We call it deadheading for dollars. I had one month last year that I received 96 hours of credit and only worked 35 hours. Generally a short call reserve will get one or two deadheads a month. That can take your pay up from a guarantee of 76 hours to anywhere from 78 to 85 hours of credit depending on how much deadheading you get.

I'm not sure how it works on the west, but recurrent training is pay no credit on the east.....so that is 8 1/2 hours of pay goes on top of guarantee for the month that it's in. Instead of 76....even without any deadhead, you get paid 84.5 that month.

The other i believe is that the west line holders tend to fly more hours than the east line holders. I have seen where some West pilots claim to fly 95 to 96 hours a month for the entire year. East line holders generally fly about 85 hours per month for the year. Again....that's a quality of life issue.

Thanks for the info. Our contract(west) has some good stuff in it, but the reserve section is seriously lacking. Unfortunately here on the west side we have some senior pilots that don't give a cr@p about anybody lower down on the seniority list.

Hopefully down the line USAPA is either reformed or replaced and we can have a contact that takes the best out of both east and west contracts.

 

[traderjake]

I am simply admitting that you are an idiot and you will never cash the NIC lottery ticket.

Only an idiot calls not having your job stolen by an East F/O winning the lottery.

 

[767one]

I and many of my fellow pilots agree Jim. Reserve in base at this particular time is a pretty damn good deal. The guys that are really making out are the over age 60 guys that bid A330 F/O reserve. They very rarely have to fly due to the age 60 pairing limitation yet still collect a paycheck. (Sign me up for that!)

I talked to an F/O that is junior to me the other day that said if things stay like this that he would bid reserve forever. I absolutely agreed with him.

(Just to be clear.....I can hold a line...but choose reserve)

You've almost got me thinking about bidding reserve except for all those trips the company buys from me for training!

 

[cactusboy53]

Nope..you are 100% wrong.

There will not be progress even after a higher court spells it out.

usapa has failed in its DFR, and is incapable of negotiating in good faith. Even if ordered to use the Nic, usapa will never present a Nic inclusive contract for ratification. Therefore, there will not be forward progress until enough pilots at LCC kick the scab union to the curb and start all over.

Sorry West pilots who want to reform usapa, but it just won't happen.

I disagree. With enough east pilots that are fed up with the USAPA circus, we can change the union officers, constitution, committee make up, and move toward a new contract (most certainly better than the one the NAC is championing now!)!

Otherwise a change of horses (CBA's) now will leave us all waiting another 3+ years for a new contract.

While you're "hoping for change", how about gettin on board for a change in USAPA? No cost to you.

 

[Move2CLT]

I disagree. With enough east pilots that are fed up with the USAPA circus, we can change the union officers, constitution, committee make up, and move toward a new contract (most certainly better than the one the NAC is championing now!)!

Otherwise a change of horses (CBA's) now will leave us all waiting another 3+ years for a new contract.

While you're "hoping for change", how about gettin on board for a change in USAPA? No cost to you.

That would mean a hefty rewrite to the C&BLs.

Same wait.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Otherwise a change of horses (CBA's) now will leave us all waiting another 3+ years for a new contract.

While you're "hoping for change", how about gettin on board for a change in USAPA? No cost to you.

Change in CBA to what? ALPA is a non-starter. The west wouldn't even vote ALPA back absent the Nicolau.

The Teamsters had a bunch of hung-ho cheerleaders here. The USAPA committee presented the Teamsters with a list of questions back in November. Response so far: crickets chirping. Maybe they decided to stay far away from this mess.

Will a change in USAPA help? Maybe. But I hear Mike Cleary and his "cabinet" will get a lot of support from the west since they see him as the best means to make USAPA implode. So the east may not have the numbers to effect change even if they wanted to.

And if USAPA does indeed implode, to you westies really want to work for Parker, Kirby et al. as an "at will" employee? Any idea where major cuts would come first?

 

[Move2CLT]

Change in CBA to what? ALPA is a non-starter. The west wouldn't even vote ALPA back absent the Nicolau.

The Teamsters had a bunch of hung-ho cheerleaders here. The USAPA committee presented the Teamsters with a list of questions back in November. Response so far: crickets chirping. Maybe they decided to stay far away from this mess.

Will a change in USAPA help? Maybe. But I hear Mike Cleary and his "cabinet" will get a lot of support from the west since they see him as the best means to make USAPA implode. So the east may not have the numbers to effect change even if they wanted to.

And if USAPA does indeed implode, to you westies really want to work for Parker, Kirby et al. as an "at will" employee? Any idea where major cuts would come first?

We already are at-will employees. It's sad that you east guys don't see it.

What is it USAPA is doing to improve your quality of life? Where are your dues going?

Your dues are going to Cleary and Parella. That allows them to stay home and make more than they would on the line.

Your dues are going to a NAC that doesn't have one experienced guy on it and zero west pilots.

Your dues are not going to the legal battle to fight the injunction that was put in place following Cleary's job action.

So we are already at-will. The west has been for a long time. Nothing is better than USAPA.

You guys made this mess and you're going to be forced to stay with it.

Change your CBLs and we can talk.