US Pilots Labor Discussion

[SparrowHawk]

Sparrow, you did such a great job staying off this thread. Let's keep it up.

New Year

New Attitude

 

[Phoenix]

New Year

New Attitude

Perhaps if Move would promise not to chew his gum to loudly, you could invite him over to flyer talk.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yeah, how about we just shoot them instead? Plan works for me. Lot's of RJ pilots would love to have the "Slave Wages" paid by US Mainline.

"Slave Wages"?

All airline pilots in the US are on slave wages (maybe not the pilots for FedEx and UPS.)

If you take the typical salary of a DC-7 captain (about 50K) from the 1950s, and adjust that salary for inflation alone, i.e. no pay raises at all, a captain today at the top of the heap should be earning 400K.

Again, that is the exact same pay with no raise whatsoever except to keep up with inflation.

So, here we ALL are some 50+ years later working for about half of the earning power that our counterparts had in the 1950s.

Slave wages.

 

[Phoenix]

"Slave Wages"?

All airline pilots in the US are on slave wages (maybe not the pilots for FedEx and UPS.)

If you take the typical salary of a DC-7 captain (about 50K) from the 1950s, and adjust that salary for inflation alone, i.e. no pay raises at all, a captain today at the top of the heap should be earning 400K.

Again, that is the exact same pay with no raise whatsoever except to keep up with inflation.

So, here we ALL are some 50+ years later working for about half of the earning power that our counterparts had in the 1950s.

Slave wages.

Half? Who is making 200K? And how many Express pilots can qualify for food stamps?

Even so, isn't it ironic that the purveyors of discontent have been unable to rally any reversal of the the trend of the rich getting richer and the middle class getting smaller? Could it be that when you peal back all the layers, you find that the uppermost union organizers and upper level management are just playing off the middle?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Considering that DC7's and Connies were the top of the food chain in the 50's, there are some network carrier pilots making over $200K for today's equivalent equipment - 747's, 777, A380's. Heck, TOS WN captains earn that flying 737's - wonder what they'd earn flying 777's?

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

"Slave Wages"?

All airline pilots in the US are on slave wages (maybe not the pilots for FedEx and UPS.)

If you take the typical salary of a DC-7 captain (about 50K) from the 1950s, and adjust that salary for inflation alone, i.e. no pay raises at all, a captain today at the top of the heap should be earning 400K.

Again, that is the exact same pay with no raise whatsoever except to keep up with inflation.

So, here we ALL are some 50+ years later working for about half of the earning power that our counterparts had in the 1950s.

Slave wages.

OR,

organized labor drove those wages above the fair market value for those jobs and now we are seeing the market correct itself?

 

[cleardirect]

"Slave Wages"?

All airline pilots in the US are on slave wages (maybe not the pilots for FedEx and UPS.)

If you take the typical salary of a DC-7 captain (about 50K) from the 1950s, and adjust that salary for inflation alone, i.e. no pay raises at all, a captain today at the top of the heap should be earning 400K.

Again, that is the exact same pay with no raise whatsoever except to keep up with inflation.

So, here we ALL are some 50+ years later working for about half of the earning power that our counterparts had in the 1950s.

Slave wages.

Oh yes still living in the past. That by gone age before deregulation. How many airline pilots were there in the 1950's? How many airline pilots are there today? Supply and demand.

 

[cleardirect]

Nothing changes, accept seniority progression, as has been the case for decades (now that all the concessions have been stopped).

The only sure way to a pay raise or better quality of life is through seniority progression and that has been true for decades even under the largest union in the airline industry. (Sadly that once great national union has miraculously transformed itself into the leader of regionals, despite the fact that the great union was "needed" to increase salaries and wages through the surefire method of pattern bargaining. Bah. They patterned themselves into poverty.)

Members still stuck in that panacea can only hope that their seniority progression outpaces the onslaught of concessions as the self-proclaimed leaders of the piloting profession clamor that everyone should give concession today in order to live to fight another day.

Seniority progression... its the only pay raise and QOL improvement.

Oh, don't get me wrong. They had their occasional shining moments despite the fact that the average professional pilot wage and work rules have plummeted (and that before you even take into account real dollars adjusted for inflation). But their moments of glory are like roses mixed in with manure in a pig sty, or lipstick on their snouts... my sincere apology to pigs.

Now we have a few projectile spewers on the boards of late who claim an alliance with the likes of the caped marauder and all of a sudden they think they can persuade everyone that seniority isn't the issue. It's all about moving forward. Better wages. Better QOL. We need it now! Heave! Hoe! Funny...

Do they realize how they sound just like the once great major union that chased concessions until it was no more?

The mighty have fallen. When you guys first started this you said were holding the moral line for all labor. (how did that work out?) DOH was the gold standard and ALPA was the bad guy. Forgetting that it was ALPA that got you those big paying contracts.

Then it was usapa was going to tell the company how it was, take DOH and get that big contract back.

Now the best you can hope for is the old guys to leave and give up their seat for you. Given up on usapa delivering any campaign promises? Big contract, DOH, better union, cheaper dues. Any of that in the near future?

NO!

The best you can hope for is attrition. No DOH or contract. You guys are the most pathetic group of pilots to ever fly airplanes.

 

[Move2CLT]

The mighty have fallen. When you guys first started this you said were holding the moral line for all labor. (how did that work out?) DOH was the gold standard and ALPA was the bad guy. Forgetting that it was ALPA that got you those big paying contracts.

Then it was usapa was going to tell the company how it was, take DOH and get that big contract back.

Now the best you can hope for is the old guys to leave and give up their seat for you. Given up on usapa delivering any campaign promises? Big contract, DOH, better union, cheaper dues. Any of that in the near future?

NO!

The best you can hope for is attrition. No DOH or contract. You guys are the most pathetic group of pilots to ever fly airplanes.

Spot on

 

[Phoenix]

The mighty have fallen. When you guys first started this you said were holding the moral line for all labor. (how did that work out?) DOH was the gold standard and ALPA was the bad guy. Forgetting that it was ALPA that got you those big paying contracts.

Then it was usapa was going to tell the company how it was, take DOH and get that big contract back.

Now the best you can hope for is the old guys to leave and give up their seat for you. Given up on usapa delivering any campaign promises? Big contract, DOH, better union, cheaper dues. Any of that in the near future?

NO!

The best you can hope for is attrition. No DOH or contract. You guys are the most pathetic group of pilots to ever fly airplanes.

Happy New Year, Sunshine!! 😀 😀

 

[mikey60]

Sparrow, you did such a great job staying off this thread. Let's keep it up.

I second that.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The best you can hope for is attrition. No DOH or contract. You guys are the most pathetic group of pilots to ever fly airplanes.

But Clear, don't you know how much they suffered? Just ask (hope you got 3 hours to hear their whining)

 

[luvn737s]

Now the best you can hope for is the old guys to leave and give up their seat for you. Given up on usapa delivering any campaign promises? Big contract, DOH, better union, cheaper dues. Any of that in the near future?

NO!

The best you can hope for is attrition. No DOH or contract. You guys are the most pathetic group of pilots to ever fly airplanes.

Wait just a minute! The AFO's said their seniority wasn't for sale, but now they want the truly senior (both in age and list placement) to just give it up for them? With the prospect of raising the retirement age again looming, will they argue that their seniority is more valuable than that of the top of the list?

 

[luvn737s]

From Flight International Magazine 7 January 1965


^TRANS-MEDITERRANEAN AIRWAYS invite appli-
•*• cations from Captains interested in operating to
Europe, the Middle East and Far East out of Beirut,
Lebanon. Only pilots holding current ratings on DC4/
DC6 type aircraft with a minimum of 5,000 hours
command experience will be considered. Commencing
salary not less than 1,000 dollars (U.S.) per month with
one month's annual vacation on full pay plus free passage
Beirut/London/Beirut. Immediate availability will be an
advantage. Apply with full particulars of past aviation
experience, present situation and earliest date available
to T.M.A., P.O. Box 3018, Beirut, Lebanon. [5934

A Far Cry from your $50K a year fantasy. Airline wages did not really rise until the mid to late 1960's.

According to a calculator at My link this $12000 salary equates to $84349.56 in 2011 dollars.

Finally something the east can be proud of !!

 

[jetjok1]

New Year

New Attitude

New Avatar?????