US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Reed Richards]

From Flight International Magazine 7 January 1965


^TRANS-MEDITERRANEAN AIRWAYS invite appli-
•*• cations from Captains interested in operating to
Europe, the Middle East and Far East out of Beirut,
Lebanon. Only pilots holding current ratings on DC4/
DC6 type aircraft with a minimum of 5,000 hours
command experience will be considered. Commencing
salary not less than 1,000 dollars (U.S.) per month with
one month's annual vacation on full pay plus free passage
Beirut/London/Beirut. Immediate availability will be an
advantage. Apply with full particulars of past aviation
experience, present situation and earliest date available
to T.M.A., P.O. Box 3018, Beirut, Lebanon. [5934

A Far Cry from your $50K a year fantasy. Airline wages did not really rise until the mid to late 1960's.

According to a calculator at My link this $12000 salary equates to $84349.56 in 2011 dollars.

Finally something the east can be proud of !!

Not a good historical snapshot of domestic (read USA) rates. But good for you and Google! Truth is most major airline senior C/Os until the mid eighties could buy an upscale new car with their monthly wage (before taxes).

Beirut was not a desirable posting in 1965 much less 2012, kind of like going to AWA in the mid to late Eighties.. a last choice only. But I digress.

Having been through 3 mergers completed, one aborted, and at least 3 passes at UAL, I look at my current wage as ok but not great. Like I have said here many times, LOA 93 rates with our trickle attrition will get me by with a little bit of struggle. You guys better pay attention to World Traveler..he has nailed it. The best investment you can have in today’s economic tsunami is “a job.”

Glad to have one, and will not be giving up my small gains to someone hired 12 years after me.

RR

 

[mrbreeze]

The cost of fuel has outpaced inflation....probably just a notch ahead of the start up of RJ's in the quest to destroy our careers.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

Glad to have one, and will not be giving up my small gains to someone hired 12 years after me.

He already makes more than you.

 

[luvn737s]

Truth is most major airline senior C/Os until the mid eighties could buy an upscale new car with their monthly wage (before taxes).

The truth (if you even care to consider it) is that when you look at the entire history of the airline profession, high wages were a mere blip on the chart, driven mostly by airlines clamoring for market share at the dawn of the jet era and a need to ensure that a labor disruption didn't jeopardize their pursuit. Their ability to pass on higher costs through CAB rubber stamping enabled labor to wield significant influence, but only for a very short time.

You can choose to ignore history and reality or, ...oh, wait you're a USAPA sycophant. Never mind.


Not everyone in the 50's was Fonzy, as much as you'd like to believe it.

 

[A320 Driver]

The cost of fuel has outpaced inflation....probably just a notch ahead of the start up of RJ's in the quest to destroy our careers.

breeze

RJs... TWICE the cost per seat mile when they were brought on the property. Amazing the amount of money these companies spent just to break the back of the pilot unions.

Driver...

 

[GuntherA320]

He already makes more than you.

There are nearly 400 pilots junior to you on the East that make more than you do...some of them hired in 1999.

 

[luvn737s]

RJs... TWICE the cost per seat mile when they were brought on the property. Amazing the amount of money these companies spent just to break the back of the pilot unions.

Driver...

Now RJ's ruined your careers? I thought it was ALPA! Or Nicolau! Or global warming!

Remember what Cleary told you , "Stick to the Script!!"

 

[A320 Driver]

Now RJ's ruined your careers? I thought it was ALPA! Or Nicolau! Or global warming!

Remember what Cleary told you , "Stick to the Script!!"

There is NO WAY to comment on here without some numbnut$ making it an East/West thing.

:angry:

 

[Claxon]

The truth (if you even care to consider it) is that when you look at the entire history of the airline profession, high wages were a mere blip on the chart, driven mostly by airlines clamoring for market share at the dawn of the jet era and a need to ensure that a labor disruption didn't jeopardize their pursuit. Their ability to pass on higher costs through CAB rubber stamping enabled labor to wield significant influence, but only for a very short time.

You can choose to ignore history and reality or, ...oh, wait you're a USAPA sycophant. Never mind.


Not everyone in the 50's was Fonzy, as much as you'd like to believe it.

Now you know why Franke hired the outcast, the marginal, the subpar and managed their expectations masterfully. He used them masterfully, now even the giant legacy AMR has been brought to earth by the legions of Franke.

 

[N924PS]

Now you know why Franke hired the outcast, the marginal, the subpar and managed their expectations masterfully. He used them masterfully, now even the giant legacy AMR has been brought to earth by the legions of Franke.

Please have the nursing staff check your dosages. I don't think the meds are working...

 

[cleardirect]

There are nearly 400 pilots junior to you on the East that make more than you do...some of them hired in 1999.

You are going to have to explain this statement. The only people making more would be on the 767 or 330. Are you admitting that 1999 hires are junior to AWA pilots. That would be the Nicolau. Reality finally sinking in.

There are only 435 WB F/O's. Are you saying the some WB captains are junior to west captains?

Make your case dude.

 

[767one]

Oh yes still living in the past. That by gone age before deregulation. How many airline pilots were there in the 1950's? How many airline pilots are there today? Supply and demand.

From your post I assume you have no problem with taking a paycut to make up for the glut of pilots.

 

[GuntherA320]

You are going to have to explain this statement. The only people making more would be on the 767 or 330. Are you admitting that 1999 hires are junior to AWA pilots. That would be the Nicolau. Reality finally sinking in.

There are only 435 WB F/O's. Are you saying the some WB captains are junior to west captains?

Make your case dude.

Reading comprehension Clear. I didn't say anything at all about west pilots.

There are nearly 400 pilots on the East that are junior to Traderjake that make more than he does.

However, since you brought it up. There are quite a few 1999 hires in the East that make more per hour than any west F/O ....even the top of scale ones.

 

[cleardirect]

From your post I assume you have no problem with taking a paycut to make up for the glut of pilots.

I said nothing about liking it or not. I was talking about the reality of our situation. Something you east guys fail to do. The reality is there are more pilots today then there were in the 50's. there are more airlines and more seats chasing limited number of pax.

Unless you acknowledge the situation you are doomed to fail without adjusting. How many buggy whip manufacturers are there?

Just like the Nicolau award we don't have to like it but we do have to accept the reality of the economics.

 

[cleardirect]

Reading comprehension Clear. I didn't say anything at all about west pilots.

There are nearly 400 pilots on the East that are junior to Traderjake that make more than he does.

However, since you brought it up. There are quite a few 1999 hires in the East that make more per hour than any west F/O ....even the top of scale ones.

I read just fine. Your statement.

View PostGuntherA320, on 03 January 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:
There are nearly 400 pilots junior to you on the East that make more than you do...some of them hired in 1999.

Who is traderjake and what is his seniority? The only way someone junior is going to make more is by flying the wide body. there are only 435 WB F/O's so unless trader is very senior it is hard to have 400 junior pilots making more.

I asked to explain your case. Your response did not so give it a try.