What's new

US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
5 of 6 Joint CLT/PHL Reps Update - Transparency: January 7, 2012.

We hope that you found this update informative. We realize it is very lengthy due to us playing a little catch up. In the future, we will attempt to publish these updates as soon after BPR meetings as practical which should substantially reduce the length.
Bill, Spike, Steve, DeWitt and Mike

These guys are absolutely PATHETIC. Where has this grave "transparency" concern been for the last FOUR YEARS? These maniacs really think the pilot group is too stupid to understand their motivations. The ABSOLUTLY LAST thing that concerns the BPR is a properly informed pilot group. The East is starting to regularly lose BPR votes. This is a shock to them because in their delusional world, they are the supreme leaders. This is NO LONGER the case. The failures of USAPA have been too great, too often, and too important to simply ignore anymore.

This update is just another thinly veiled threat to those that oppose the hard line USAPIANS. It won't work. Those guys have FUBARED every single thing they've touched for years. Most Major FO's still make more than East Captains...YEARS after the guarantee of passage to the DOH promised land. these CLT scumbags are nothing but impotent little losers whose track record of complete failure hangs around their necks like the proverbial Albatross...and they think WE'RE the idiots? :lol: :shock: :lol:
 
There might be a chance they don't want to get involved with you.

Actually, you are somewhat correct.

As long as there is a West pilot class with a valid suit to hang over usapa's head, nobody is going to touch this pilot group, and least of all, side with usapa.

The IBT's response was entirely predictable. Why on earth would an AFL-CIO union intentionally do bussiness with an organization founded on the idea of violating its DFR to its member class?

The IBT wants nothing to do with the West pilot class, because the West is the group that has had its rights violated. i.e. the West is going to sue the pants off anybody who touchs the usapa notion that a union can disregard its DFR to the membership. The IBT fully understands that Seeham's strategy is a complete lose lose situation for a union. usapa has violated the rights of West pilots granted them under the LMRDA, the RLA, and other federal laws such as McCaskill-Bond.

Bottom line,,,the IBT, APA, SWAAPA, ALPA, and especially LCC,,,,anybody,,and I mean anybody, forced to do business with usapa is going to seek immunity from the West class. Given the choice, nobody will do business with usapa in the first place.

Wake up and smell the Irish coffee!!
 
Actually, you are somewhat correct.

As long as there is a West pilot class with a valid suit to hang over usapa's head, nobody is going to touch this pilot group, and least of all, side with usapa.

The IBT's response was entirely predictable. Why on earth would an AFL-CIO union intentionally do bussiness with an organization founded on the idea of violating its DFR to its member class?

The IBT wants nothing to do with the West pilot class, because the West is the group that has had its rights violated. i.e. the West is going to sue the pants off anybody who touchs the usapa notion that a union can disregard its DFR to the membership. The IBT fully understands that Seeham's strategy is a complete lose lose situation for a union. usapa has violated the rights of West pilots granted them under the LMRDA, the RLA, and other federal laws such as McCaskill-Bond.

Bottom line,,,the IBT, APA, SWAAPA, ALPA, and especially LCC,,,,anybody,,and I mean anybody, forced to do business with usapa is going to seek immunity from the West class. Given the choice, nobody will do business with usapa in the first place.

Wake up and smell the Irish coffee!!

Nic,

I actually agree with most of your post. I think the IBT's concern is more a general issue. I don't think they care which side is right . They just don't want to involved in anything that is already tied up in lawsuits.


Ahhh, The Irish coffee!
 
Nic,

I actually agree with most of your post. I think the IBT's concern is more a general issue. I don't think they care which side is right . They just don't want to involved in anything that is already tied up in lawsuits.


Ahhh, The Irish coffee!

No, they care which side is right.

usapa contended that it was fighting for a union's right to negotiate. That seems like a cause any union would wish to support. We even had usapa supporters claiming amicus curiae briefs would be written by the IBT and CAPA etc.. supporting usapa's position at the 9th.

Where was all the support? It is non-existent because as you said, they don't want to get involved in anything that is tied up in lawsuits, and they are definitely not going to jump in on the losing side.

My point is, not only do they care which side is right, they know which side is right, and it ain't usapa's side. Further, usapa's side is in direct conflict with their interests as a labor representative.
 
These guys are absolutely PATHETIC. Where has this grave "transparency" concern been for the last FOUR YEARS? These maniacs really think the pilot group is too stupid to understand their motivations. The ABSOLUTLY LAST thing that concerns the BPR is a properly informed pilot group. The East is starting to regularly lose BPR votes. This is a shock to them because in their delusional world, they are the supreme leaders. This is NO LONGER the case. The failures of USAPA have been too great, too often, and too important to simply ignore anymore.

This update is just another thinly veiled threat to those that oppose the hard line USAPIANS. It won't work. Those guys have FUBARED every single thing they've touched for years. Most Major FO's still make more than East Captains...YEARS after the guarantee of passage to the DOH promised land. these CLT scumbags are nothing but impotent little losers whose track record of complete failure hangs around their necks like the proverbial Albatross...and they think WE'RE the idiots? :lol: :shock: :lol:


They lost my vote a long time ago!
Stupid is........as Stupid does!!
 
I believe it's a sorry state of affairs that a union that represents Fractional Jet, Express, and Non-Schedule pilots does not have the time to answer USAPA's questions. USAPA did not ask for much and the IBT basically said "we're not interested in representing your major airline pilots."

If this is not a confirmation that USAPA is a total failure I'm not sure what is. In fact, it's a slap in the face and another USAPA loss.

There is no question in my mind that the pilots with the most to lose are the younger, junior pilots because they have longer to work here than those flying into the sunset. Therefore, when would now be a good time to change USAPA's present course of action?


Not a rejection of USAPA, a rejection of Cleary.
 
The comedy just keeps getting funnier. Thanks easties for all the laughs!

Looks like Tracy hates easties too. :lol:




An anonymous submission on: http://www.yousapa.com/index.php/cam...e-3-issue.html


The 3% issue

What is it? A raise due the pilots, 3% each May 1st, after amendable date of the current contract.

Where does it come from?

From the July 2002 restructuring agreement:

Contract Extension:

• The amendable date of the 1998 US Airways pilot collective bargaining agreement (Agreement) will be extended to December 31, 2008. The parties will commence bargaining for a new collective bargaining agreement no later than January 15, 2008 and will make every reasonable effort to complete such bargaining in time to secure a new, fully ratified, collective bargaining agreement prior to the amendable date. If the parties have not reached a tentative agreement by August 1, 2008, they will, no later than August 10, 2008, jointly apply for mediation with the National Mediation Board.


Revisions to Hourly Pay Rates:

The hourly pay rates contained in Section 3 of the Agreement will be revised as follows:

• The hourly pay rates in effect on June 30, 2002 will be known as the Book Rates. The actual rates will each be reduced on the Effective Date to the rates that were in effect on April 30, 2001. The parity review scheduled for May 1, 2003, and Letter of Agreement 47, as amended, will be canceled.

• Eliminate the LOA #61 1% lump sum increase scheduled for 2003.

• Hourly pay rates will be increased by a compounded 1% effective on May 1, 2003, May 1, 2004, May 1, 2005, and May 1, 2006, and further increased by a compounded 2% effective 1, 2007 and May 1, 2008, and 3% on May 1 of the succeeding status quo period (i.e., the period past the Agreement amendable date).


From LOA 93:

NOW THEREFORE the parties mutually agree to amend the Contract,
Restructuring Agreement, and the subsequent Letters of Agreement as stated in the Transformation Plan Term Sheet, below. Other than as specifically modified in these documents, all terms and conditions of the ALPA-US AIRWAYS Collective Bargaining Agreement effective January 1, 1998 as amended shall remain in full force and effect.

And further from LOA 93:

Duration: Amendable date December 31, 2009.

Background:

The association believed that the LOA 93 agreement regarding pay rates expired on December 31, 2009 and the pay rates were to be restored to the rates prior to the LOA 93 agreement. The Company disagreed and the matter went before an arbitrator in Feb 2010.

The “question” in dispute and thus asked of the arbitrator was this:

“What are the pay rates on January 1, 2010?”

The 3% issue was separate from the LOA 93 issue. (It is in the 2002 restructuring agreement, not LOA 93)

The previous restructuring agreement, known as the July 2002 Restructuring Agreement stipulated that there were to be raises of 3% each May 1st after the amendable date of the agreement. The July 2002 restructuring agreement extended the amendable date of the current pilot’s contract to December 31, 2008.

LOA 93 extended this amendable date to December 31, 2009.

Many pilots believed that these were 2 separate issues.

I The LOA 93 pay rate restoration

II The 3% raises due the pilots – per the July 2002 restructuring agreement – each May 1st after the amendable date (December 31, 2009 – per LOA 93)

Many pilots decided that these were 2 separate issues and argued this before the USAPA grievance committee to arbitrate these 2 issues separately.

The LOA 93 pay restoration hearings took place in Feb 2010 before arbitrator Kasher. The question asked Kasher was “What are the pilot pay rates supposed to be on January 1, 2010?” Nothing was asked of Kasher pertaining to the 3% raises due each May 1st after the amendable date.

On May 15th, the pilot were paid for the April pay month which included May 1st. There was no adjustment of pay shown on the pay sheets for this pay month. At that time, it was clear that the company was not going to comply with the July 2002 restructuring agreement.

Over the next few months, there was much debate among the BPR and grievance as to whether this issue was included in the LOA 93 grievance, or if another grievance needed to be filed. Grievance argued against filing another grievance.

Several pilots believed that this issue was not included and filed individual grievances with USAPA.

After the transcripts were released, and after the final briefs were filed with the arbitrator in June 2010, it was clear that the testimony, the witnesses, the hearing did not address the 3% raises, but grievance continued to claim that they were covered.

Several pilots, who had filed individual grievances with USAPA insisted that their grievances be filed with the company prior to the 120 day window expiring. Grievance Chair Parrella refused to file the grievances, and only when 3 pilots insisted, the grievances were filed under protest from Chairman Parrella, and these grievances were declared unsupported by USAPA (the pilots were on their own, and would have to financially support the grievances, and also spend their own time defending the grievance.)

In March of 2011, the first hearing was held in front of Ed Schmidt in Pittsburgh. 2 of the 3 pilots traveled to PIT on their own expense, along with Doug Mowery at his own expense, and another witness attending at his own expense. Tracy Parrella and Dennis Brennan attended to represent the union, and argued extensively against the grievance and the 3 pilots who had filed the grievance. They argued that this issue was covered under the LOA 93 grievance.

Tracy Parrella documented her position in front of the company and promised to send Ed Schmidt documents supporting the union’s position on this matter. Tracy Parrella refused to copy in the 3 pilots, and refused to send the 3 pilots the documents that she sent to the company regarding their individual grievances. After numerous requests in writing, Tracy Parrella refused to supply the documents supplied to the company regarding this grievance.

Ed Schmidt denied the grievance and agreed, in writing, with the union, that the company believed that the issue was covered under the LOA 93 grievance.

As of this date, the 3 pilots are still waiting for their grievance to be heard by Lyle Hogg.
 
The 3% issue was separate from the LOA 93 issue. (It is in the 2002 restructuring agreement, not LOA 93)

Factually false. Although the words "3% issue" is not used in LOA 93 it is indeed addressed as a separate issue. I'll leave it to the "all knowing" among the easties here to figure out where and how it's addressed - something to keep them occupied. That is why I have said all along that the best shot USAPA had was getting the 3% annual raises reinstated. Unfortunately for the easties, USAPA aimed for the big prize (snap back, restoration, whatever you want to call it) and as usual missed - backed all the way by those of the easties who claim to have all the answers.

Jim
 
Factually false. Although the words "3% issue" is not used in LOA 93 it is indeed addressed as a separate issue. I'll leave it to the "all knowing" among the easties here to figure out where and how it's addressed - something to keep them occupied. That is why I have said all along that the best shot USAPA had was getting the 3% annual raises reinstated. Unfortunately for the easties, USAPA aimed for the big prize (snap back, restoration, whatever you want to call it) and as usual missed - backed all the way by those of the easties who claim to have all the answers.

Jim

I have maintained all along the LOA 93 Grievance was loser, and that we had a real shot at the 3% raises. My one concern (again, voiced here many times) was bundling it with the LOA 93 issue was a bad, bad, decision.

We may have indeed already blown it, but I can only hope some dummies will put on their thinking caps and at least pursue the 3% grievance already filed by our individual pilots. Doubt the pride of a certain Grievance Chair will allow that. So sad.

Jim, I am not clear if you think the issue is dead now. I cannot be sure as I have not seen Kasher's decision. This Superhero says the 3% issue was NOT addressed. There, my prediction for the night.

RR
 
Heard this just tonight, don't know if it is something to be announced tomorrow as business news, or in the form of a new bid out East later in the week:

190 Base in PHL to close, move to DCA. 190's will eventually pick up the new flying .

No new 190's coming from Republic.

I have not caught up on my business news reading for the last few days, maybe this is old news.

RR
 
We may have indeed already blown it, but I can only hope some dummies will put on their thinking caps and at least pursue the 3% grievance already filed by our individual pilots. Doubt the pride of a certain Grievance Chair will allow that. So sad.
So let me get this straight. The clear loser that was the LOA93 debacle took TWO YEARS to get resolved and you are NOW willing to go after 3% as a separate issue? Why? To waste two more years? Here's an idea....why don't you abide by your agreements, drop all law suits and for once, play by the rules? Until you do, you won't get a single penny anyway so why not play by the rules now and stop the arterial bleeding? USAPA HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT AN EXTENSION OF MISERY. Ready to move on yet?
 
So let me get this straight. The clear loser that was the LOA93 debacle took TWO YEARS to get resolved and you are NOW willing to go after 3% as a separate issue? Why? To waste two more years?

Ok, using your logic (and that of the latest brochure I picked up at the PHL Ramada) we should also drop your block hour settlement, since it has also taken over two years. And why don’t you just “accept” the letter of the law and the “process” on your failed distance learning grab.

As to the flyer, and I know it is for the Westies and not the Easties...I don't get the line about the furloughed West pilots not getting medical from USAPA. They were told beforehand to join and be in good standing prior to leaving. But you guys intimidated them not to join, thus no medical. Seems like more of a failure to do simple math on the part of those leaving, though I can only hope LEO is helping them out after leading them astray.

RR
 
The 3% issue...another USAPA failure for the pilots. When will it end?
ALPA never once said no to give backs and brow beat the members into fear of their jobs so as to vote for all the givebacks. For once in my career I haven't had to listen to the elected union leaders telling me how we need to give more to save our jobs so we can fight another day.

But don't let that get in your way. Resurrect the drums of discontent, fear, capitulation, and desperation to give until you move forward. :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top