US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Heard this just tonight, don't know if it is something to be announced tomorrow as business news, or in the form of a new bid out East later in the week:

190 Base in PHL to close, move to DCA. 190's will eventually pick up the new flying .

No new 190's coming from Republic.

I have not caught up on my business news reading for the last few days, maybe this is old news.

RR

Did you not consult with the Caped Marauder before going out on such a limb? Such unnecessary risk.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim, I am not clear if you think the issue is dead now. I cannot be sure as I have not seen Kasher's decision. This Superhero says the 3% issue was NOT addressed. There, my prediction for the night.

My take is that by making the grievance about the whole ball of wax, it's dead now. Just look at the ammunition that USAPA has already given the company in the case of the three pilots, if the "anonymous submission" is true. While the question was framed as asking what the pay rates would be on 1/1/2010, the union's whole argument was that everything related to pay returned to LOA 84 status on 1/1/2010 - that included the 3% annual raises due in May of each year.

As for Kasher's decision, I only know what you know (maybe less). TP apparently said that USAPA lost. Since USAPA tried for the grand slam or trifecta, I take that to mean everything was lost - including the 3% annual raise. Apparently the union opposed the three pilots who pressed the separate grievance and supplied documentation that they were wrong supports that position.

Frankly it sounds like USAPA has it's share of "How dare you question me or my actions" people in positions of power just like ALPA did...

Jim

 

[traderjake]

For once in my career I haven't had to listen to the elected union leaders telling me how we need to give more to save our jobs so we can fight another day.

For some people being told what they want to hear (DOH) is more important than anything else (pay raise).

Don't spend all of your new found good fortune in one place.

 

[Res Judicata]

ALPA never once said no to give backs and brow beat the members into fear of their jobs so as to vote for all the givebacks. For once in my career I haven't had to listen to the elected union leaders telling me how we need to give more to save our jobs so we can fight another day.

But don't let that get in your way. Resurrect the drums of discontent, fear, capitulation, and desperation to give until you move forward.

Oh I get it now. You're much happier simply being lied to. Good plan.

 

[traderjake]

That explains the smilely faces.

 

[luvn737s]

For once in my career I haven't had to listen to the elected union leaders telling me how we need to give more to save our jobs so we can fight another day.

No, that's true, but your union isn't fighting for you now, is it?

Your union gave tacit approval to behavior that lead to a neutering injunction.

Your union is telling you about the big bad westies and how they will keep you in permanent stagnation if you abide by what you know is right. If they had no boogeyman, they would have no support among the pilots because they have no record of accomplishing anything. And yet so many believe them.

In fact, I would prefer a union that let their accomplishments do the talking for them.

 

[cleardirect]

Ok, using your logic (and that of the latest brochure I picked up at the PHL Ramada) we should also drop your block hour settlement, since it has also taken over two years. And why don’t you just “accept” the letter of the law and the “process” on your failed distance learning grab.

As to the flyer, and I know it is for the Westies and not the Easties...I don't get the line about the furloughed West pilots not getting medical from USAPA. They were told beforehand to join and be in good standing prior to leaving. But you guys intimidated them not to join, thus no medical. Seems like more of a failure to do simple math on the part of those leaving, though I can only hope LEO is helping them out after leading them astray.

RR

No one intimidated west pilots not to join. After 4 years years of watching usapa I think everyone is beginning to see why. What a screwed up hot mess usapa is.

More important Leonidas told everyone to join from the beginning. Eric Ferguson joined day one.

 

[Reed Richards]

No one intimidated west pilots not to join. After 4 years years of watching usapa I think everyone is beginning to see why. What a screwed up hot mess usapa is.

More important Leonidas told everyone to join from the beginning. Eric Ferguson joined day one.

You are having a fantasy timeline moment. Either the guys and gals about to be furloughed were threatened or just plain stupid. All they had to do was join and get dues current and they had medical after furlough. What does your "four years down the road view" have to do with what happened then? You were so full of blind hate you were quick to throw a bunch of junior folks under the bus just to prove a point.

Ferguson indeed joined, which makes him one smart cookie..but the rest of you were so angry you not only did not join, you threatened pilots who even wanted to be committee members. Why did you not follow Eric's lead? Only after almost a year, one of your pilots finally had the gonads to step up as rep. Guess it took that long for you to agree with Eric.

RR

 

[aquagreen73s]

You are having a fantasy timeline moment. Either the guys and gals a about to be furloughed were threatened or just plain stupid. All they had to do was join and get dues current and they had medical after furlough. What does your "four years down the road view" have to do with what happened then? You were so full of blind hate you were quick to throw a bunch of junior folks under the bus just to prove a point.

Ferguson indeed joined, which makes him one smart cookie..but the rest of you were so angry you not only did not join, you threatened pilots who even wanted to be committee members. Why did you not follow Eric's lead? Only after almost a year, one of your pilots finally had the gonads to step up as rep. Guess it took that long for you to agree with Eric.

RR

Is lying in your genes?

Not a single West pilot was ever threatened about joining USAPA or being a committee member. Membership participation in PHX is far higher than any other domicile. Look for it to continue to increase as we've figured out that a large minority voting as a single block beats two dumb factions fighting each other in the majority.

 

[prechilill]

Either the guys and gals a about to be furloughed were threatened or just plain stupid. All they had to do was join and get dues current and they had medical after furlough. RR

Factually incorrect. The issue was not whether they were members but what the respective contract language was. You (USAPA zealots) could have done the right thing and extended the benefits to west furloughees, but in fact you didn't, probably out of spite because that's how people like you operate.

But it doesn't matter much really. In five or so more years this place will finally start to improve when you guys start dropping like flies. Your caustic, cynical attitudes cannot be reformed and you people are anything but reasonable (perhaps psychotic?). With new hires coming in and retirments going out your AFO voices will quiet over time, eventually the trouble you caused us all will be relieved.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Leonidas Update: January 8, 2012

During the recent hearing in Judge Silver's courtroom, the parties involved in the Declaratory Judgment case argued to clarify the framework of the courts process to determine the company’s legal rights. By the end of the nearly hour-long hearing, Judge Silver envisioned an approach that would maximize judicial efficiency. As the company and West Class offered in their pre-hearing briefs, Judge Silver seeks to end the ineluctable controversy as a matter of law through Summary Judgment.

In the days following the December 1st proceeding, many conversations still struggle to grasp the subtleties involved in adjudicating this conflict to a final court resolution utilizing the Federal Declaratory Relief Act. To aid in filtering some of the noise, we will illuminate only the salient points of this litigation:

•The Declaratory Judgment is an action that allows the company to determine its legal rights and obligations regarding Section 22 - Seniority.

•Established law affords the company and union the right to negotiate all contracts, including the Transition Agreement, within the limits of law.

•The court will only allow a limited view of the factual history of this dispute to establish the company's liability in negotiating a potentially unlawful seniority position.

•“Declaratory Relief” is specifically designed for issues "not yet ripe for adjudication." Therefore, this case does not interfere with Ninth Circuit's decision on the ripeness of the union's DFR.

To summarize, the DJ will attempt to determine the company's contract obligations under the Transition Agreement to clarify liability as the company and USAPA move, ever so slowly, to complete a joint contract that (based on a previous court determination), was clearly a violation of the union’s DFR. It could be further clarified by stating that there are always limits to the power embodied in various rights granted by law, whether one is President of a country, a corporation or a labor union. With this reality in mind, and to the exasperation of many pilots, USAPA continues an untenable position as exemplified by the profligacy of union resources in the attempt to convert the will of the majority into unlawful action.

In recent times, USAPA’s insuperable obstacle has met with a renewed alliance of sorts from certain company managers. Information will be forthcoming that will provide a dagger-slash glimpse into the irrational and malevolent heart of the organization, that in the past, we have diligently and piously strived to maintain and improve. We have abandoned our virginitas simplicitas view long ago, but for some odd reason disparate treatment continues to abound. The union continues its attempt to infect the pilot group with the contagion of an ever-present fear, and the company continues to reward this insolent behavior with heterogeneous treatment of the parties involved. It is obvious that our “imprisonment” is being exploited for political expediency, and until the perverted ambitions of a few unyielding characters are brought into check, we will continue our difficulties ad absurdum.

All parties are hereby placed on notice that attempting to trample rights to free speech will not be tolerated.

Our longstanding efforts to assert all pilots’ lawful right to seniority, decided through an arbitration, is unique in the history of labor. This is emphasized by our rare defendant-class certification among other eccentricities. Considering the recent legal arguments of the December 1st hearing, we are on the fast track to a final clarification of the rights and responsibilities of all parties.

We continue to applaud the efforts of all pilots seeking a greater understanding of the DJ case as it continues to unfold. We will continue our efforts to provide truthful commentary without the prolixity found in many USAPA communications, especially certain non-Phoenix domicile updates. As a reminder all legal documents can be found on cactuspilot.com.

The sacrifices made by many pilots, in both financial contributions and volunteerism, have given us the opportunity to rest over the recent holiday season and focus on the most important aspect of our lives; the health and vitality of our families.

Enjoy a prosperous and healthy 2012.


Leonidas, LLC

www.cactuspilot.com

 

[Reed Richards]

Is lying in your genes?

Not a single West pilot was ever threatened about joining USAPA or being a committee member. Membership participation in PHX is far higher than any other domicile. Look for it to continue to increase as we've figured out that a large minority voting as a single block beats two dumb factions fighting each other in the majority.

You don't know what you are talking about, and if you ever make it to DFR II you will be proven wrong. But no chance of DFR II or my redemption on this issue, not going to happen.

You are kidding, right? Nobody threatened? Really.

RR

 

[aquagreen73s]

You don't know what you are talking about, and if you ever make it to DFR II you will be proven wrong. But no chance of DFR II or my redemption on this issue, not going to happen.

You are kidding, right? Nobody threatened? Really.

RR

Coming from the guy who has never been right about anything and on track to retire poor!

Where's that fragmentation of the West you beat the drum about so often? How's the DOH cram-down working out for you? Better yet, how's it working out for you since leaving USAPA? F/As are about to get a T/A to vote on. What we know after four years of being led exclusively by the East is that the only thing saving you guys from yourselves was a national oversight. Now, not even the school slut (the IBT) wants anything to do with USAPA. That speaks volumes of what the last four years truly represents.

 

[Reed Richards]

Coming from the guy who has never been right about anything and on track to retire poor!

Where's that fragmentation of the West you beat the drum about so often? How's the DOH cram-down working out for you? Better yet, how's it working out for you since leaving USAPA?

Yeah, I really blew those predictions on how the Ninth would rule, and how LOA 93 would turn out.

Patience on the fragmentation, patience. Remember, I have said repeatedly the frag could come on the East side.

Could care less if you know who I am, but not sure you do. I have not left USAPA.

So this is your argument saying no one was threatened? Deflection ala Move2CLT?

RR (rather "poor" RR)

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways-America West Pilot JNC Contract, What USAPA Gave Up, Part 5 of 9: January 9, 2012

Dear Subscriber,

Update for January 9, 2012

Quick Fact #218: During the fall of 2007 the ALPA JNC was nearing completion of the post-merger pilot joint contract with the Company. One important section being finalized was Long-Term Disability. On September 25, 2007 the Company provided USAPA its Long-Term Disability Plan proposal. Should US Airways' pilots look for a new direction and seek representation?

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