US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

US Airways-America West Pilot JNC Contract, What USAPA Gave Up, Part 5 of 9: January 9, 2012

Dear Subscriber,



To unsubscribe send a reply message with unsubscribe.

unsubscribe

 

[nic4us]

Leonidas Update: January 8, 2012

During the recent hearing in Judge Silver's courtroom, the parties involved in the Declaratory Judgment case argued to clarify the framework of the courts process to determine the company’s legal rights. By the end of the nearly hour-long hearing, Judge Silver envisioned an approach that would maximize judicial efficiency. As the company and West Class offered in their pre-hearing briefs, Judge Silver seeks to end the ineluctable controversy as a matter of law through Summary Judgment.

In the days following the December 1st proceeding, many conversations still struggle to grasp the subtleties involved in adjudicating this conflict to a final court resolution utilizing the Federal Declaratory Relief Act. To aid in filtering some of the noise, we will illuminate only the salient points of this litigation:

•The Declaratory Judgment is an action that allows the company to determine its legal rights and obligations regarding Section 22 - Seniority.

•Established law affords the company and union the right to negotiate all contracts, including the Transition Agreement, within the limits of law.

•The court will only allow a limited view of the factual history of this dispute to establish the company's liability in negotiating a potentially unlawful seniority position.

•“Declaratory Relief” is specifically designed for issues "not yet ripe for adjudication." Therefore, this case does not interfere with Ninth Circuit's decision on the ripeness of the union's DFR.

To summarize, the DJ will attempt to determine the company's contract obligations under the Transition Agreement to clarify liability as the company and USAPA move, ever so slowly, to complete a joint contract that (based on a previous court determination), was clearly a violation of the union’s DFR. It could be further clarified by stating that there are always limits to the power embodied in various rights granted by law, whether one is President of a country, a corporation or a labor union. With this reality in mind, and to the exasperation of many pilots, USAPA continues an untenable position as exemplified by the profligacy of union resources in the attempt to convert the will of the majority into unlawful action.

In recent times, USAPA’s insuperable obstacle has met with a renewed alliance of sorts from certain company managers. Information will be forthcoming that will provide a dagger-slash glimpse into the irrational and malevolent heart of the organization, that in the past, we have diligently and piously strived to maintain and improve. We have abandoned our virginitas simplicitas view long ago, but for some odd reason disparate treatment continues to abound. The union continues its attempt to infect the pilot group with the contagion of an ever-present fear, and the company continues to reward this insolent behavior with heterogeneous treatment of the parties involved. It is obvious that our “imprisonment” is being exploited for political expediency, and until the perverted ambitions of a few unyielding characters are brought into check, we will continue our difficulties ad absurdum.

All parties are hereby placed on notice that attempting to trample rights to free speech will not be tolerated.

Our longstanding efforts to assert all pilots’ lawful right to seniority, decided through an arbitration, is unique in the history of labor. This is emphasized by our rare defendant-class certification among other eccentricities. Considering the recent legal arguments of the December 1st hearing, we are on the fast track to a final clarification of the rights and responsibilities of all parties.

We continue to applaud the efforts of all pilots seeking a greater understanding of the DJ case as it continues to unfold. We will continue our efforts to provide truthful commentary without the prolixity found in many USAPA communications, especially certain non-Phoenix domicile updates. As a reminder all legal documents can be found on cactuspilot.com.

The sacrifices made by many pilots, in both financial contributions and volunteerism, have given us the opportunity to rest over the recent holiday season and focus on the most important aspect of our lives; the health and vitality of our families.

Enjoy a prosperous and healthy 2012.


Leonidas, LLC

www.cactuspilot.com

Hey, love you AOL, but I'm trying to stay young by only reading at a fifth grade level!!!! (got that one from Larry the cable guy)

....ineluctable???....profligacy???...insuperable???...Virginitis simplicitis???....prolixity???


When you give us the dagger-slash update, can you keep it a little more simple on how you plan to 'git er dun'!

 

[Phoenix]

For some people being told what they want to hear (DOH) is more important than anything else (pay raise).

Don't spend all of your new found good fortune in one place.

You are a leopard that takes glory in your spots.

You are in favor of a pay raise even at the expense of DOH, after you have taken pay shelters at the expense of those junior to you for decades, always consoling yourself that the junior will be senior one day.

Please, go on. Tell us more about yourself. :wub:

 

[nic4us]

Yeah, I really blew those predictions on how the Ninth would rule, and how LOA 93 would turn out.

Patience on the fragmentation, patience. Remember, I have said repeatedly the frag could come on the East side.

Could care less if you know who I am, but not sure you do. I have not left USAPA.

So this is your argument saying no one was threatened? Deflection ala Move2CLT?

RR (rather "poor" RR)

As I recall from the RICO suit, usapa alleged that J Mac threated a West pilot on the AWAPPA web board. usapa quoted Mac as saying if the individual became a rep, Mac feared for his safety.

hmmmm....is that a threat? If I tell you that if you become a crack whore I fear for your health, have I threated you?


On another topic you have been squaking about. The about to be furloughed West pilots...(no that is the wrong term)...allow me to rephrase....The West pilots who had their jobs stolen by the usapa scab machine...(ah yes, a much better description of what transpired) weighed their usapa dues obligations against the cost of health care during unemployment.

Frankly, if I were one of them, there is no way I would ask the scab organization that just stole my job for any help whatsoever. So you ignorant ranting that if they just kowtowed to usapa and paid their dues, they would have had medical coverage is imbecilic.

 

[nic4us]

You are a leopard that takes glory in your spots.

You are in favor of a pay raise even at the expense of DOH, after you have taken pay shelters at the expense of those junior to you for decades, always consoling yourself that the junior will be senior one day.

Please, go on. Tell us more about yourself. :wub:

How about you tell us more about yourself?

You are in favor of DOH even at the expense a pay raise, better working conditions, greater job security, and personal integrity, after years of taking advancement at the expense of those SENIOR to you?

 

[USA320Pilot]

For those East pilots who believe the Nicolau Award II is a career killer, who were never furloughed, can you tell me why the Salamatt Report indicated the most junior pilot who could upgrade stand-alone (Jim Zeigler) would have no more than a two-year upgrade delay due to the Nicolau Award?

Click here to read the report.

Granted, with the age 65 retirement rule change -- this new rule extended stagnation and created about an additional five-year delay. But, at the time of the report ALPA & USAPA's consultant Rikk Salamatt indicated Zeigler would see his Captain uprade delayed from 2015 to 2017 with more senior East pilots receiving even less of a upgrade delay.

Therefore, if Salamat''s report is accurate at the time it was written, how can the Nicolau Award II be a carrer killer for those pilots never furloughed?

 

[nevergiveup]

For those East pilots who believe the Nicolau Award II is a career killer, who were never furloughed, can you tell me why the Salamatt Report indicated the most junior pilot who could upgrade stand-alone (Jim Zeigler) would have no more than a two-year upgrade delay due to the Nicolau Award?

Click here to read the report.

Granted, with the age 65 retirement rule change -- this new rule extended stagnation and created about an additional five-year delay. But, at the time of the report ALPA & USAPA's consultant Rikk Salamatt indicated Zeigler would see his Captain uprade delayed from 2015 to 2017 with more senior East pilots receiving even less of a upgrade delay.

Therefore, if Salamat''s report is accurate at the time it was written, how can the Nicolau Award II be a carrer killer for those pilots never furloughed?

and be on reserve, and work all weekends, and work all holidays....ect....ect....ect.

 

[Move2CLT]

...ect....ect....ect.

Did you just have a seizure?

 

[Phoenix]

How about you tell us more about yourself?

You are in favor of DOH even at the expense a pay raise, better working conditions, greater job security, and personal integrity, after years of taking advancement at the expense of those SENIOR to you?

Oh, thou dost flatter too much. You didn't say I stole jobs. :wub:

Name one time I have opposed a pay raise, better working conditions, greater job security, or personal integrity. Give examples, show your work. Surely, I'm not the first to tell you that you have a knack at bringing up the past.

 

[nevergiveup]

Did you just have a seizure?

I take it you have never seen Yul Brynner in The King and I. Probably too young.

 

[traderjake]

You didn't say I stole jobs.

Only because the West won't let you.

 

[Reed Richards]

Therefore, if Salamat''s report is accurate at the time it was written, how can the Nicolau Award II be a carrer killer for those pilots never furloughed?

I am about your seniority, never furloughed.

With current pilot attrition and no change in aircraft we will both be widebody C/Os for at least the last 2 or 3 years of our careers.

Under the NIC we would have never been widebody C/Os, barring a plague or epidemic that struck the 700 pilots (some 11 years junior) inserted above us.

Never a widebody C/O with over 35 years unbroken service. Ask the salamander about that.

The NIC will never be a career killer anyway. That ship has sailed.

RR

 

[Phoenix]

...

The NIC will never be a career killer anyway. That ship has sailed.

...

That should easily spawn another 35 pages or so. :blink: ... a page for each year of unbroken service!

 

[USA320Pilot]

and be on reserve, and work all weekends, and work all holidays....ect....ect....ect.

With the Nicolau Award implementation there is a no bump, no flush provision and any pilot can only bid a vacancy. Furthermore, there are a lot of East Coast-based pilots who live in PHX or on the West Coast who would bid PHX. In addition, the Transition Agreement has a minimum hull/minimum block hour requirement, which is an important point that I believe must remain in place.

If an upgrade delay is no more than two years so is reserve, weekends, and holidays.

One-month from tomorrow Judge Silver will receive final replies to the Summary Judgment. This is a big deal because a Summary Judgment is a decision made on the basis of statements and evidence presented for the record without a trial. It is used when there is no dispute as to the facts of the case and one party is entitled to judgment as a matter of law. Judge Silver cleary envisioned an approach that will maximize judicial efficiency and I believe it is unlikely that an appeal will be heard. The Ninth Circuit Court can only focus on the district court's application of the law and not the Findings of Fact, which clearly points against USAPA.

In conclusion, the Salamatt report by ALPA and USAPA's consultant indicated there would not more than a 2-year upgrade, reserve, weekend, and holiday working schedule delay for any East pilot employed at the time of the merger and the DJ lawsuit will likely determine the company and USAPA's contract obligation per the Transition Agreement, which requires implementation of the Nicolau Award.

 

[N924PS]

Never a widebody C/O with over 35 years unbroken service. Ask the salamander about that.

RR

Too bad for you.

There are Captain's with a lot less than 35 years unbroken service at other airlines that make more than a USAirways B767 or A330 Captain flying a narrow body. With more days off, more vacation, better retirement........

So the rest of us are stuck in limbo so YOU can fly a wide body your last 2 or 3 years? Ain't gonna happen.