US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

I refuse to join the atrocity called usapa. This Jew will refuse to join the Nazi party and that's all I got to say about that!

That's completely idiotic. Don't you think ALL USAPA supporters would be happier than Pigs in #### if all West pilots thought like you? Do you REALLY think you're upsetting them because you refuse to join!!!??? That's the dumbest frigging thing I've heard on these boards in a long time. I'm sure you've justified it all somehow in your head but the FACTS ARE THE FACTS and the FACT is the WEST....your brothers and sisters in WAR absolutely need every single vote. You are needed and I believe your placement of your own pointless personal views ahead of what is needed for the West group is irrationally selfish. The East beat you.

Any West pilot that isn't a MIG absolutely deserves to be stapled by DOH.

 

[Ames]

Oh Ames I've missed you!

Yes, the East pilots are married to women who think for themselves as well...and we think a bunch of you guys out West are...well I'm not going to bother saying it. We feel sorry for you guys, we really do! All your bravado has to be making up for some kind of short coming.

I have plenty of things to do with my life...occasionally it involves a computer and sometimes if I have time I swing by these boards just to make sure the status is quo. It never fails to disappoint.

Your spouses probably don't come on these boards for any multitude of reasons.
I'm going to go with; If they did then they'd have to face what a bunch of jerks you guys can be, they'd rather just repress that I'm sure. This way they can just "lay back and think of England" so to speak.

As for honoring an agreement...This is America, More people get out of agreements here than anywhere else in the world. Loopholes, badly written contract language...you name it and someone has found a way to get out of it.
Look at the company you work for they are professionals at working around contract language...and when they do they simply say...Grieve it!

Look you know, absolutely know Nic was a huge boon for you guys. So keep crying "Final and Binding" "Neutral third party" my personal favorite "We bought you, you should be happy to have a job at all" No matter what this thing plays out through the courts to its end game. The East are simply sticking up for the guys that have been kicked again and again by a series of events that they weren't responsible for and they deserve a little something for the sacrifices they made, that's what this stand is about. Sit back relax, enjoy...let it play out.

I'm really looking for Move2Clt to chime in, he's become a personal favorite of mine on these boards...MIA lately which is strange, maybe he's playing his flight sim games.

I have missed you too. You really help to make me appreciate my wife. It doesn't surprise me that you write an entire post attempting to jusify subverting a legal process. Keep your eyes open wide. The Nic will be upheld in court and soon your "husband" will have to accept the fact that he isn't getting "a little something for the sacrifices he made" on the backs of the west pilots such as myself. The fact that he allowed himself to be "kicked again and again" is a testament to his (and your) inability to accept reality, lack of ambition, or laziness.

One more thing which I am sure you will not accept. The Nicolau decision is not a boon for west pilots. The top third of our list was severly screwed. The rest of us are in relatively the same position that we were before. It just isn't our fault that your "husband" has had a lousy career and because of the east's actions of the past five years we certainly will never sympathize.

Looking forward to your articulate and mature response.

 

[Move2CLT]

I really want to know what kind of people you're married to out West because every time a Westie characterizes us East spouses like you are here it makes me laugh. You really have no clue as to how supportive we are of our significant others. If you think they despise you, believe me we despise you even more. The West's smary little comments, the better than you attitudes, although it seems relegated to the boards...you never do speak to my husband or I in a bus. If you weren't so pathetic we might feel sorry for you, but as it is if you were on fire I wouldn't even spit on you to put you out.

Nonetheless, believe what you want out there but you are really so far off base it's laughable.

Now back to lurking...

OK, who taught the eastie wife how to turn on a computer and type?

Damn it.

I now understand why so many east pilots are divorced.

 

[Ames]

That's completely idiotic. Don't you think ALL USAPA supporters would be happier than Pigs in #### if all West pilots thought like you? Do you REALLY think you're upsetting them because you refuse to join!!!??? That's the dumbest frigging thing I've heard on these boards in a long time. I'm sure you've justified it all somehow in your head but the FACTS ARE THE FACTS and the FACT is the WEST....your brothers and sisters in WAR absolutely need every single vote. You are needed and I believe your placement of your own pointless personal views ahead of what is needed for the West group is irrationally selfish. The East beat you.

Any West pilot that isn't a MIG absolutely deserves to be stapled by DOH.

Get over yourself. By design our votes are worthless. I stand on principle and your bullying tactic is totally useless on me. Bully me to my face and see where you land.

 

[fifidriver]

Is Missfit really a girl? Hmmmm. Talks tough- just like a Steeler fan! Pass MF a beer... BUUUURRRRRPPPP

Do you think?

 

[Metroyet]

Get over yourself. By design our votes are worthless. I stand on principle and your bullying tactic is totally useless on me. Bully me to my face and see where you land.

Hardly bullying you...just pointing out the reality of your situation. You have absolutely no way of knowing how the various east factions are going to vote. The last thing they are over there is unified and every single vote counts. You voluntarily handing over your rights to Mike Cleary is pathetic, absurd and shows mental weakness. Emotional, irrational hysterics are clearly not the sole domain of the East, You're obviously not as tough as you think you are.

That's ok. Just sit there and relax...the Big boys will carry your water for you.

 

[fifidriver]

Get over yourself. By design our votes are worthless. I stand on principle and your bullying tactic is totally useless on me. Bully me to my face and see where you land.

Although I disagree with his delivery, I agree with his assessment. I think that all of our votes will be needed.

 

[fatherabraham]

Get over yourself. By design our votes are worthless. I stand on principle and your bullying tactic is totally useless on me. Bully me to my face and see where you land.

Hey Boo Boo move2,

Are you equally amused with Ames-Metroyet fighting?

FA

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey Boo Boo move2,

Are you equally amused with Ames-Metroyet fighting?

FA

Love it. A she-male v Westie.

Awesome.

WWJD?

 

[Move2CLT]

Bully me to my face and see where you land.

Oh yes!!!!

Be nice whoever fights her - she is a girl after all.

Unless she's fat. Then all bets are off and you can go to town on her.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi and cactusboy

The courts will only take care of the Nic if the east chooses to continue the legal fight. This election will gage whether the east has the stomach to remain on LOA93 while we work through the appeal process and subject ourselves to another dues increase in order to finance the effort.

Too bad we won't receive a summary judgement from Judge Silver until sometime after the first ballot, because I think that would affect the decision of many on how to vote. If it goes to a runoff, then ballots close on March 22. I seriously doubt we'll get a summary judgement before then either.

I think this election will definitely be about the Nic. Those that want to end this will vote for the PHX team, or a similar one which endorses the Nic. Those that wish to continue the fight at all costs will vote for an east team and I don't know of any east candidates who have moved off their DOH position.

The only other option, which is not yet available or apparent, is an east team which advocates a definite exit strategy or end game to the legal battle. Such a team would promise to end it after a summary judgement if it went against us, or one last trip to the 9th Circuit - but no further. Even in the latter scenario, the east is committing itself to another two year delay before we can move on.

A merger may or may not happen, the Nic is here and now.

What do you think?

I agree that the legal fight won't be over before the election, but I don't know that you will have to vote east or west to go a certain way. I don't know all the east candidates, so we will have to see what they have to say, and the west candidates will have to address what they would want to do in the case of a positive result for USAPA.

I wonder if there could be a ruling from the court that makes the company finally show it's hand. I know USAPA says you can't read anything from the hearing so far, but Siegel(sp?) sure seems to be of the opinion that accepting DOH changes the TA, and changing the TA leads to a tricky hybrid DFR. The company may be less willing to face that than USAPA. The best USAPA gets is the right to NEGOTIATE, can we force them to AGREE? I really don't know.

A candidate could take the stance that they will allow the pilots to dictate the direction after Judge Silver rules.

There is a positive to this thing running to the legal end. We finally see something through to the end and then we won't spend the next 20 years arguing who was right. But as you said, do we have the collective stomach to wait it out even more? Did LOA 93 change that? I don't know.

Lots to look at over the next few weeks. Maybe someone will surprise me with some really innovative ideas that I can't see.

 

[Pi brat]

Wow. Twice this month that we have agreed with each other. 😀 Looking past the conclusion of this event to the next nearly certain event of a merger (because the LCC management can't utter a phrase without the words merger / consolidation) is the right way to look at this.

Proven leadership skills with proven successful results is the key to the next office holders. I reserve my vote until I have heard out all candidates for all offices.

Absent this food fight I think we would agree on most things. These two groups are much more alike than either would like to admit. I think it's a pilot thing. 🙂

 

[Piedmont1984]

I wonder if the USAPA election could be postponed a month or two if the summary judgement from Silver can be expected before summer? Wait for that shoe to drop, then decide exactly how we wish to proceed by choosing the best team. We may also know more on the merger front by then.

Any C&BL scholars know if an election can be delayed?

 

[Move2CLT]

No. That would be influencing the election.

 

[Reed Richards]

I wonder if the USAPA election could be postponed a month or two if the summary judgment from Silver can be expected before summer? Wait for that shoe to drop, then decide exactly how we wish to proceed by choosing the best team. We may also know more on the merger front by then.

Any C&BL scholars know if an election can be delayed?

I wonder if the Presidential election can be delayed until this whole Iran nuke thing is clear?....that way we can know which “team” to pick to deal with the outcome. Maybe Costa Line should delay their next class of Captains until the Courts deal with Capt. Courageous? Really 1984, are you serious?

Since I am indeed smarter than most scholars...if the BPR voted today to send out a CBL change for a vote, as required by the current CBL, the current elections would still take place. But again..really?

Better yet, maybe the lazy pilots on the East take a few minutes a week to read their election emails and vote as informed members. They should be scouring all sources for as much information and opinion they can get, with the same gusto they chase that free leftover newspaper in the airport seating area.

Even though almost of third of the West has never been a voting member of any union, the other two thirds are to be commended on their solididarity. Look at the latest PHX election, very impressive and stunning result…election of all three Reps by acclimation in the nomination phase. Wow. Then look at the last CLT rep elections..half of CLT have no problem discussing the trials and tribulations of the popcorn makers in the CP office, but could not be bothered to vote in the USAPA CLT Rep elections, much less even OPEN the campaign emails they were sent.

I have criticized the West for not participating in USAPA early on..that compliant stands. But they are currently kicking our collective butts on the ballots right now. Whatever the outcome in the Officer and Appeal elections, the pilots of PHX will have influence.

And a Reed Richards prediction for the day..the West will end up with all three positions on the Appeal Board. All they have to do is put their 1100+ votes together in primary and runoff. Done deal, especially if over 500 CLT pilots cannot be bothered to even vote.

RR