US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Reed Richards]

Scab Clowns just being clowns.

"...and Granddaddy, what did you do to those horrible USAPA folks that ruined your career?"

"Why, I went on a public forum, with a made up name, and called them Clowns. Yep. Clowns."

"Guess you showed them."

RR

 

[Zone5]

Scab Clowns just being clowns.

Go ahead, stick your head in the sand. No way "Dougie" won't kick your butt through the goal posts, just to do a multi-gazzillion dollar deal! Right, if you say so.

The day is coming when we all wake up and read it and weep. Maybe it will turn out to be a big breakup of USAirways, I'll take my scope over yours any day!

I will gladly take my 767 PHL job over A320 PHX, when the nut cutting comes!

seajay

 

[Keroseneuser]

You stupid arrogant clown, what makes you think you won't be the one screwed?

The east has been hosed so many times over the past 20 years that we expect it. However in those hose jobs we did pay attention and one thing is for sure. There is not a CEO out there that cares about the employees if there is millions to be made from a deal.

I think fodase is looking at it from that point of view. In a deal, which bases would be more valuable? PHL with its massive O&D and 100 miles from NYC and Dc area, with little competition, or PHX geographically placed where it is with gobs of competition? CLT and PHX might be a crap shoot between the two. CLT makes easy access to the islands and the north east, but PHX also has easy access to western mexico destinations and the west coast.

In the end it will come down to which side makes the most money with the least competition to drive down prices.

No matter what happens I bet PHL and DCA and the are what makes Delta and AA salivate. The rest of the bases could be a crap shoot the way I see it.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

No matter what happens I bet PHL and DCA and the are what makes Delta and AA salivate. The rest of the bases could be a crap shoot the way I see it.

I have no clue, but here is an alternate take on Phoenix, counterintuitive to prevailing thought. Awhile back Gary Kelly wrote that letter to SWA employees detailing the challenges they would face with the new breed of leaner and meaner legacies, and how American would join that club after it's bk proceeding. Where is a perfect place to put the squeeze on SWA in one of it's large markets? Phoenix. I would imagine Delta might like that, as perhaps might AA.

I'm not claiming that as a prediction or theory, nor would I have any qualification to back that up if were. It's just an amateur hour thought. Phoenix might not be as uninteresting to any of the big three as so many seem to think. Maybe.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

It's not the East pilots you need to be concerned about at this point, it's how bad "Dougie" wants to do a deal and what he would be willing to do for it, that should be of primary concern to the future of the West pilots.

seajay

I agree with that. If we remain a standalone, our east-west thing will work itself out in due time. I do personally worry about Doug doing anything he has to to make his deal, I know he cares not one whit what becomes of me.

 

[Reed Richards]

I have no clue, but here is an alternate take on Phoenix, counterintuitive to prevailing thought. Awhile back Gary Kelly wrote that letter to SWA employees detailing the challenges they would face with the new breed of leaner and meaner legacies, and how American would join that club after it's bk proceeding. Where is a perfect place to put the squeeze on SWA in one of it's large markets? Phoenix. I would imagine Delta might like that, as perhaps might AA.

I'm not claiming that as a prediction or theory, nor would I have any qualification to back that up if were. It's just an amateur hour thought. Phoenix might not be as uninteresting to any of the big three as so many seem to think. Maybe.

No predictions tonight..but Delta using PHX to get to SWA makes more sense than even U and AMR merging. Delta is not done yet, and will not be satisfied at being number two in size. Besides that, they seem to really be a money making machine right now, even with mad dogs 🙂 Pretty ballsy to predict a big profit for 2012 in December of 11'.

As many (including this superhero) have said..don't assume the only "splitting" to be done is PHX from the East. But at least the East has some Scope and change of control language that is "maybe" enforceable. All the PHX base has is a bunch of language that always says.."at the Company's discretion"..or words to that effect.

RR

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

No predictions tonight..but Delta using PHX to get to SWA makes more sense than even U and AMR merging. Delta is not done yet, and will not be satisfied at being number two in size. Besides that, they seem to really be a money making machine right now, even with mad dogs 🙂 Pretty ballsy to predict a big profit for 2012 in December of 11'.

As many (including this superhero) have said..don't assume the only "splitting" to be done is PHX from the East. But at least the East has some Scope and change of control language that is "maybe" enforceable. All the PHX base has is a bunch of language that always says.."at the Company's discretion"..or words to that effect.

RR

If the west is fragged off, it could be ugly. So ugly we could wish for all our current problems back. We could get anything from a staple to handed applications to simply goodbye. I try not to dwell on thoughts like that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

True enough! Time will tell. Perhaps, the "value" in USAirways is the PHX operation. You don't really believe that, do you Jim?

seajay

Ya gotta look at the big picture, Zone. Concentrating on one corner will make your eyes cross...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

PHL with its massive O&D and 100 miles from NYC and Dc area, with little competition,

"Massive" O&D? You jest I hope. And being so close to NYC and DC is probably it's greatest weakness.

or PHX geographically placed where it is with gobs of competition?

Yeah - all those hubs within 100 miles like PHL??? AA competes with WN a few miles away in Dallas, UA does the same in Houston, and DL has them right up the road in ISP/LGA/EWR - ya think they'd be running from WN in PHX and give up that "massive" O&D???

CLT makes easy access to the islands and the north east

And MIA, ATL, and IAD don't???

In the end it will come down to which side makes the most money with the least competition to drive down prices.

That'd be CLT then since Douggie says it is US' most profitable hub. The question is who would be flying the planes in/out.

No matter what happens I bet PHL and DCA and the are what makes Delta and AA salivate.

PHL, with JFK so close, is out in the cold. DCA would add slots for AA, but no more total than US currently has so some of the combined carriers' would have to be divested - letting more competition (possibly low cost) into DCA.

You're thinking way too parochially - thinking just because a hub/airport is valuable to US it has to be valuable to AA or DL. Not so...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

If the west is fragged off, it could be ugly. So ugly we could wish for all our current problems back. We could get anything from a staple to handed applications to simply goodbye. I try not to dwell on thoughts like that.

I share your dread of future unknown events..but see no downside of any kind to losing the PHX base. None.

Almost a quarter of East flying is being flown by PHX pilots. Good riddance to that and West folks like Move2CLT, Trader, BB, Prechill, and Fodase. I simply don't like them, and would welcome their departure. Good riddance and best of luck.

Won't be that simple though. We all know that.

RR

 

[Metroyet]

Phx is larger than PHL.

 

[BoeingBoy]

PHX does have lower yields than PHL but the capacity enhancement plan for PHL will fix that with a per passenger cost of $20+. Ya think DL or AA will want to keep a hub that expensive with JFK right up the road?

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

I share your dread of future unknown events..but see no downside of any kind to losing the PHX base. None.

Almost a quarter of East flying is being flown by PHX pilots. Good riddance to that and West folks like Move2CLT, Trader, BB, Prechill, and Fodase. I simply don't like them, and would welcome their departure. Good riddance and best of luck.

Won't be that simple though. We all know that.

RR

No it won't be that simple. We're here for the long term boys and you had better get use to us being around.

If not PHX, then CLT for sure.

We're not going anywhere so you can put this little wet dream you put together away.

 

[cleardirect]

I share your dread of future unknown events..but see no downside of any kind to losing the PHX base. None.

Almost a quarter of East flying is being flown by PHX pilots. Good riddance to that and West folks like Move2CLT, Trader, BB, Prechill, and Fodase. I simply don't like them, and would welcome their departure. Good riddance and best of luck.

Won't be that simple though. We all know that.

RR

RR incorrect statement. The west is not doing a quarter of the "east" flying. Think about it, do the math and get back to us.

When you taxi out or look around the terminal at CLT or PHL is every 4th plane west metal? Does your statement even make sense?

 

[nic4us]

Go ahead, stick your head in the sand. No way "Dougie" won't kick your butt through the goal posts, just to do a multi-gazzillion dollar deal! Right, if you say so.

The day is coming when we all wake up and read it and weep. Maybe it will turn out to be a big breakup of USAirways, I'll take my scope over yours any day!

I will gladly take my 767 PHL job over A320 PHX, when the nut cutting comes!

seajay

Again, demonstrating a complete lack of situational awareness.

I will go ahead and give you the score in all these hypothetical potential breakups.


LCC basically has three major assets. Airplanes, realestate, and infrastructure. You, as a pilot for LCC, do not have any more or less of claim to any of these assets than any other LCC pilot. The fact that you are current on the 767 could be a benefit or a hinderance for you personally. The fact that you are based in PHL means nothing. You seem to have a fundamental misconception about how our company is structured. The east does not own anything..i.e. PHL, CLT, 767s etc. those all belong to LCC, as does PHX and the PHX based 320's and 757s. In any merger, aquisition, spinoff, you and I have next to zero protections other than being current on a particular airplane would likely mean offers to fly that airplane, wherever it ended up, long enough for our replacement to be trained.

Lets say Delta comes and makes an offer for all LCC, they want the A320's, 330's and 350 orders. They plan on closing PHX and CLT, and keeping PHL and DCA. Still like that 767 seat that is headed for the boneyard?

On top of all this, usapa just got parked by the NMB. The next step is released. Once released, your contract, your scope, the TA, all go into the self-help trashcan. Getting parked by the NMB is no big deal, getting Parkered while in self-help is a huge deal.

To sum, east scope is basically as worthless as West scope, a pilots current domicile has no bearing on corporate transactions, and usapa is still the most worthless union to ever disgrace organized labor.