US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

Page 3988 Res judicator aka Candidate Koontz tells how he will cross the line.They all will. Don t give any a chance. Again. You are up next Moved2kohler

 

[cleardirect]

I'm glad you corrected kero. They say the WILL deliver an industry LEADING, not average. Just no details on how exactly giving up the legal battles will cure all and provide that elusive unity. Still waiting on an answer.

Lurkers: I agree with CB. Read all and watch all the Ferguson/Koontz material. Pay attention to what they leave out as much as what they put in such as how they pointed out the AA proposed rates were better than LOA93, but they failed to mention that they are better than west rates and the Kirby. Send them a message and ask them about how Ferguson stopped supporting a recall of Cleary because it was best for WEST pilots. Ask for details on how the are going to close that unity gap. Ask if they want to drop all the legal battles if AOL gets a decision from Judge Silver they don't like. And let me know if you get answers.

Would you also make the same suggestion to the other 2 candidates? hoe is McKee doing the same thing following the same path Cleary did going to get us anything? what is Hummel going to do differently?

Are you asking those questions or just of the west guy?

 

[3dtv]

The western scheme is an alliance with Hummel. They will vote for him because they know the identity thief lawyer does not have the votes. Hummel will and has already sided with the Ferguson camp with the DCA collaborative.

Do you even think before you write this stuff or does it just come out as foolish as it sounds? No one in DCA is agreeing with the west.

 

[Pi brat]

Would you also make the same suggestion to the other 2 candidates? hoe is McKee doing the same thing following the same path Cleary did going to get us anything? what is Hummel going to do differently?

Are you asking those questions or just of the west guy?

Waiting to hear from the ones that I have questions for. With Mckee I think I know what I need to know, but will still read and or watch everything all the candidates put out.

 

[Res Judicata]

Page 3988 Res judicator aka Candidate Koontz tells how he will cross the line.They all will. Don t give any a chance. Again. You are up next Moved2kohler

If the strike is to force the company to accept DOH, (laughable) I'd walk right over the top of you scabs with cleats on. You have no viable strike threat, 50+% of the membership wants your fake union dead, you're parked, have a permanent injunction over you, and will be on LOA93 for at least 8 years longer than you were supposed to resulting in the loss of a Billion dollars in pay.. All The fruits of USAPA

 

[Beancounter]

Sorry that an angry group of Allied Pilots are about to urinate on your parade. It is coming and fast. The Nic is the last thing they want. They want old AAA out the door, then the young western at the bottom of the pile. They want themselves ready to get the attrition you were too greedy to deal with. You missed the boat. Sayonara.

Sorry, I missed that. What were we supposed to do? You wanted a DOH/staple, we said NO, and went to arbitration. Ohhh, wait I see, we were supposed to hand over our seniority to you and just bend over to the mighty US AIRWAYS PILOTS. Look, I'm sorry your career has been an utter failure, but you're not getting back some of what you lost at our expense. Can I suggest some other way to get back all that lost time and pay? Maybe a lottery ticket?

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry, I missed that. What were we supposed to do? You wanted a DOH/staple, we said NO, and went to arbitration. Ohhh, wait I see, we were supposed to hand over our seniority to you and just bend over to the mighty US AIRWAYS PILOTS. Look, I'm sorry your career has been an utter failure, but you're not getting back some of what you lost at our expense. Can I suggest some other way to get back all that lost time and pay? Maybe a lottery ticket?

Like this one:
New Nic Old Nic Difference Old Emp # Name East / West # East / West % New Nic % Status Age

3735 4207 472 XXXXX F E XXXX 87.59 75.65 LOA 40.2

Oh wait, those are just for junior west pilots.

I found it interesting that Ferguson and Koontz said that USAPA was founded by mostly junior east pilots. Aren't they pretty junior west pilots?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Here is the thing, I have been offline about 2 hours, and in that 2 hours one thing is apparant. Eric's campaign is built on one thing and one thing only, implement the NIC. he has nothing past that and no plan as how to even do his primary task of implementing the NIC.

Every west poster on here seems to think that any east guy that opposes NIC supports DOH. Even after we have told you time and again that is not the case for most on the east.

Now the candidate that I am looking to elect will be the one that is not afraid to piss off BOTH the east and west to really get us moving in the correct direction. Cleary has always been tied to the DOH and in doing so he had zero chance of enough unity to do squat. The injunction is proof of that. east was attemping to put pressure on the company and the west was doing everything it could to help the company.

Now suppose we elect Eric in the office....exact same results, Zero unity since he will push for full unmodified NIC and wont have any unity to do squat with either.

Face it, DOH and NIC leads down the same path. You may have NIC on paper, but how are you ever going to get any T/A passed when the majority of the pilots gets shafted? On the flip side you might have DOH on paper but how are you ever going to get any contract with it when the west will sue? Both sides lead to the same place.

You really want a candidate that can lead us out of this and get a decent contract? We need one that does not give a rats ass about DOH or NIC and has the balls to sit down and come up with something that can be passed by the majority of pilots on both sides. Everything else is just pissing in the wind. You know it, I know it, Cleary knows it, Furgeson knows it. And Doug is loving everyminute of it, since no matter which side NIC or DOH wins this election he knows he won't have to come up with a new contract.

 

[traderjake]

XXXX

Thanks for taking the time to write me, and my apologies for the delayed reply.


When elected President, I will stop the endless litigation cycle by accepting the Arbitration Award and inserting it in Section 22 of the Joint Contract. I plan to appoint additional members to the NAC, representing a cross section of the USAirways pilots group so that everybody's interests are properly represented at the table, and I will instruct them to get us a industry leading contract.


I'm willing to consider a wide variety of possibilities that will help realize that goal. In that regard, I don't think adding fences would assist in realizing those objectives.


I realize that is not the answer you want to hear, but I would like to point out that the East has currently enjoyed a 5-year fence (and counting) during which it has recalled all of its 1900 pilots that wanted to come back, enjoyed all of the hiring, had reduced furloughs at the expense of the West in 2008, captured all the widebody growth since the merger, taken all the seats on the ATA 757s and taken all the seats on the EMB-190s, the last three examples in violation of the Transition Agreement and two Arbitrated rulings.


The infighting of the last five years has cost all of us a lot, both financially and emotionally. As USAPA President I want to put an end to this. Accepting the Nicolau as our seniority list, stopping our infighting and thus ending the Civil War dividing us, is the first step in doing so. I think that I am the only candidate for President who offers the USAirways pilots a way forward now, rather than many years from now "when the courts decide". Considering the various merger speculations in the news these days, "when the courts decide" may indeed be way too late.


I'm hoping to get your vote and applaud your efforts to make an informed decision about the future path of our pilot group. Please email me with any additional questions you might have.


Sincerely,


Eric Ferguson
USAPA # 14405
Candidate for USAPA President 2012

 

[crazystnic]

Here is the thing, I have been offline about 2 hours, and in that 2 hours one thing is apparant. Eric's campaign is built on one thing and one thing only, implement the NIC. he has nothing past that and no plan as how to even do his primary task of implementing the NIC.

Every west poster on here seems to think that any east guy that opposes NIC supports DOH. Even after we have told you time and again that is not the case for most on the east.

Now the candidate that I am looking to elect will be the one that is not afraid to piss off BOTH the east and west to really get us moving in the correct direction. Cleary has always been tied to the DOH and in doing so he had zero chance of enough unity to do squat. The injunction is proof of that. east was attemping to put pressure on the company and the west was doing everything it could to help the company.

Now suppose we elect Eric in the office....exact same results, Zero unity since he will push for full unmodified NIC and wont have any unity to do squat with either.

Face it, DOH and NIC leads down the same path. You may have NIC on paper, but how are you ever going to get any T/A passed when the majority of the pilots gets shafted? On the flip side you might have DOH on paper but how are you ever going to get any contract with it when the west will sue? Both sides lead to the same place.

You really want a candidate that can lead us out of this and get a decent contract? We need one that does not give a rats ass about DOH or NIC and has the balls to sit down and come up with something that can be passed by the majority of pilots on both sides. Everything else is just pissing in the wind. You know it, I know it, Cleary knows it, Furgeson knows it. And Doug is loving everyminute of it, since no matter which side NIC or DOH wins this election he knows he won't have to come up with a new contract.

Pretty clear in my book as east. Not going with wild card... Hummel
Just casted
vote for McKee

 

[Beancounter]

Like this one:
New Nic Old Nic Difference Old Emp # Name East / West # East / West % New Nic % Status Age

3735 4207 472 XXXXX F E XXXX 87.59 75.65 LOA 40.2

Oh wait, those are just for junior west pilots.

I found it interesting that Ferguson and Koontz said that USAPA was founded by mostly junior east pilots. Aren't they pretty junior west pilots?

Hey, I didn't say anything about the NIC being fair. You want to see some skewed numbers, post some DOH stuff. East, East, East...........Chaa Chunk(Staple Gun) West, West..........

 

[nic4us]

How long until the AMR merge? Those AA pilots can't wait much longer for the Nic to put young western pilots high on the list so they can jack up their seniority. Ha Ha ha! Eastern division should offer LIFETIME AA seat protection to all active and furloughed AA on the 767 and 777. This is the perfect opportunity for eastern pilots to torpedo Nic forever. Eastern be careful. The criminal Ferguson has conspired to put Hummel in.
The best opportunity for Cleary to flame Leonidas would be to slam those bi$&@es as he walks out the door with a seniority DOH deal with AMR

Hi scab, me again!!

Do you have any proof that Ferguson is a "criminal"? If not, did you know libel is a tortious crime, that it appears you just commited?

Oh, and in a merger, the APA is not even going to consider any offer the scab union has to make.

 

[luvn737s]

Given that enviornment, how good of a chance do you think the west agenda has of getting many east guys to vote for it?

I know the response this post will get from many on here. It is expected and will further solidify for me the fact that any vote for Eric in this campaign will be a vote to completly screw me(top 2/3) and those junior to me(bottom 1/3).

Keep in mind two things: 1) A vote for Ferguson is not a vote FOR the NIC. The pilots still have the opportunity to vote on a contract and can reject it (and all the counterbalancing benefits) if they prefer sacrificing money to continue hating the NIC. and 2) east pilots will still elect east BPR reps. Ferguson and Koontz will establish a tone and leadership and rebuild USAPA credibility, but they alone cannot implement anything.

Alot can be done by a unified pilot group, but replacing Cleary with his clone or someone bent on being the "protector of the east" is not the means to accomplish that.

 

[Pi brat]

Hey, I didn't say anything about the NIC being fair. You want to see some skewed numbers, post some DOH stuff. East, East, East...........Chaa Chunk(Staple Gun) West, West..........

Fair enough. Yes, on the criteria that I've listed DOH is is probably worse for the west than the Nic is for the east, if you have no faith in the C&Rs.

 

[Pi brat]

Would you also make the same suggestion to the other 2 candidates? hoe is McKee doing the same thing following the same path Cleary did going to get us anything? what is Hummel going to do differently?

Are you asking those questions or just of the west guy?

BTW, every pilot should be asking the candidates questions that they need answers to. Have you asked McKee how he is going to succeed with over a third of the pilot group against him? How that has worked so far?