US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

I would also like to learn how Eric is going to get us a fat new shiny contract with industry standard rates as claimed.

All I have heard so far is how we accept the NIC then this new contract for industry standard will just pop out of thin air!

I would put the odds of getting a non-NIC/DOH contract at about 0.00000001 so any candidate that is talking about getting a JCBA of any value that does not include the NIC in S22 he has an infinitesimally small chance of delivering on his promise whereas EF would have a much better chance, even if it was only 50:50 or slightly less.

You are certainly setting a scenario up where US Management would get released to impose a NIC-inclusive, cost neutral JCBA while USAPA has little to no chance of manufacturing a strike in a self-help scenario because of widely fractured support. So, which is better, a NIC-inclusive JCBA that is negotiated and ratified, or one that is crammed down without any pilot input whatsoever?

 

[CallawayGolf]

How would me knowing the answer keep others from answering?

Nic spells out his reasons for doing what he did. I just don't agree with him on parts of it, and with the placement of furloughed pilots, Brucia agrees with me.

To me, a 76I IRO position is not a higher value position than any other captain position, but Nic ranked it that way, then gave it to a top east captain that could not hold a WB captain position. I'm not following how that helped keep the F/Os in there seats. They got slotted further down. Also he slotted west 757 captain positions higher when it didn't pay anymore than the A320.

Bottom line: Did east pilot have career expectations or not? If so, why were they applied differently throughout the list? I had the expectation, if we stayed in business, of flying capt on the A330 just like #517 did. His/her rights were protected but not mine. I had around a thousand west pilots that had no expectation of flying it put in front of me, with no protections.

If you (plural/east) didn't want someone else making those kinds of nuanced determinations about seniority integration and status, then perhaps you (plural/east) should have made the west MEC an offer that they could not reasonably refuse prior to going to arbitration. The second both sides entered into binding arbitration both east and west lost any and all ability to nit pick on how the arbitrator decided his own best way to complete the integration. Go to Vegas and place your life savings on red 13 (just making that up since I have no idea what colors/numbers are on a roulette wheel) then you lose all control of what happens to your fortunes after the wheel starts clicking. Sure there is a shot all of your dreams will come true, but the odds are you will be less satisfied with that all or nothing strategy than if you had retained control all the way through the process.

 

[Pi brat]

We are offering a no-nonsense, straight forward solution to our problem. As your next president and vice-president, we will implement the arbitration award to pursue an industry-leading contract.

I'm glad you corrected kero. They say the WILL deliver an industry LEADING, not average. Just no details on how exactly giving up the legal battles will cure all and provide that elusive unity. Still waiting on an answer.

Lurkers: I agree with CB. Read all and watch all the Ferguson/Koontz material. Pay attention to what they leave out as much as what they put in such as how they pointed out the AA proposed rates were better than LOA93, but they failed to mention that they are better than west rates and the Kirby. Send them a message and ask them about how Ferguson stopped supporting a recall of Cleary because it was best for WEST pilots. Ask for details on how the are going to close that unity gap. Ask if they want to drop all the legal battles if AOL gets a decision from Judge Silver they don't like. And let me know if you get answers.

 

[Pi brat]

If you (plural/east) didn't want someone else making those kinds of nuanced determinations about seniority integration and status, then perhaps you (plural/east) should have made the west MEC a offer that they could not reasonably refuse prior to going to arbitration. The second both sides entered into binding arbitration both east and west lost any and all ability to nit pick on how the arbitrator decided his own best way to complete the integration. Go to Vegas and place your life savings on red 13 (just making that up since I have no idea what colors/numbers are on a roulette wheel) then you lose all control of what happens to your fortunes after the wheel starts clicking. Sure there is a shot all of your dreams will come true, but the odds are you will be less satisfied with that all or nothing strategy than if you had retained control all the way through the process.

Great answer CG.

 

[Pi brat]

I would also like to learn how Eric is going to get us a fat new shiny contract with industry standard rates as claimed.

All I have heard so far is how we accept the NIC then this new contract for industry standard will just pop out of thin air!

No, no kero. Not industry average, INDUSTRY LEADING. If you are going to promise what you have no idea of how to deliver why not promise more! Got to get those F/O rates up so that those of us that will be displaced to it won't be so disappointed.

 

[cactusboy53]

I'm glad you corrected kero. They say the WILL deliver an industry LEADING, not average. Just no details on how exactly giving up the legal battles will cure all and provide that elusive unity. Still waiting on an answer.

Lurkers: I agree with CB. Read all and watch all the Ferguson/Koontz material. Pay attention to what they leave out as much as what they put in such as how they pointed out the AA proposed rates were better than LOA93, but they failed to mention that they are better than west rates and the Kirby. Send them a message and ask them about how Ferguson stopped supporting a recall of Cleary because it was best for WEST pilots. Ask for details on how the are going to close that unity gap. And let me know if you get answers.

Lurkers:
I would encourage any and all of you to REALLY take the time to write Ferguson or Koontz on the blog. This is the way they will be answering the tough questions. They have already answered question from the Compass Correction crowd. Sniping is fun, but the advancement of our pilot group is VERY serious.

If you have come the realization that the legal games are near an end and that an unaltered Nicolau Seniority list remains the final seniority list for the combined US Airways, and you are ready for a raise: Watch the videos, ask the serious questions, and vote logically.

Pi, we already know you struck a vote for McKee & the USAPA "dream team" (after all, they are the only candidates that swear to keep up the delay & fight at any and ALL costs.).

CB (oh, BTW....that obviously doesn't stand for Courtney Borman) 😛

 

[Pi brat]

Pi, we already know you struck a vote for McKee & the USAPA "dream team" (after all, they are the only candidates that swear to keep up the delay & fight at any and ALL costs.).

Wrong again CB. No where have I said that staying with the same team will guarantee success. I haven't voted yet and I haven't decided on President, EVP Sec Tres. I will be voting for a westie for appeal board, just don't want to say who an damage him! ;-)

I did just as you say and I'm sure that when the guys get done with school I will hear from them.

 

[BoeingBoy]

They say the WILL deliver an industry LEADING, not average.

No, no kero. Not industry average, INDUSTRY LEADING.

Don't know what you posted, lost all sense of logic, and now reading comprehension is going....

Way to exaggerate as usual Pi...it just makes you look foolish as usual. Notice the quote from EK doesn't say "WILL deliver an industry leading" contract but rather says "we will implement the arbitration award to pursue an industry-leading contract." So where is the guarantee you keep saying is there???

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

No, no kero. Not industry average, INDUSTRY LEADING. If you are going to promise what you have no idea of how to deliver why not promise more! Got to get those F/O rates up so that those of us that will be displaced to it won't be so disappointed.

Pi;
Instead of sniping at the candidates, why not listen to what they have to say / offer and then simply make your vote. I think if you actually read and listen to what is offered AND perhaps take the time to seriously ask him questions, you may actually learn a little more about him (as opposed to what Mikey tells you). Here's Eric's campaign e-mail (you may have accidentally tossed it in the e-trash):

Dear US Airways Pilots,

As all other candidates have weighed in with at least one campaign message, a preliminary review is in order. A cursory analysis reveals how other candidates offer nothing more than a promise to continue the same, failed strategy. They offer the same stale mantra, only this time with a pledge to be either smarter, or stronger, or perhaps more aggressive, but in the end they are merely new faces on what has been proven to be futile.

During the course of this election, it will become clear that our team offers the only realistic legal solution for the pilots of US Airways.

Other candidates are trying to convince you that USAPA is on the verge of victory on every front. They are telling you, “all that is required is for you to lend me your support.” Success, they will say, “is just around the corner.” The realist knows this just isn't so.

If you desire a positive change for our union and your future, then choose the only candidates which offer exactly that. Our team uniquely represents the first real chance for US Airways pilots to stand united and finally attain an industry-leading contract.

Please visit www.fergusonforpresident.com to view our video message and for more information about how we, together with your support, will actually accomplish these goals.


Sincerely,

Eric Ferguson

 

[Claxon]

No, that's just the way USAPA has conditioned you. You actually have to be smart and unified to get a contract and that's what Eric offers.

Unity first through the Nic and then a new contract.

You're not still waiting for USAPA to come through, are you?

Eric is an identity stealing lawyer. He is laughed at by Parker. Do a seniority deal with Allied Pilots that stacks the cards in their favor in5- 8 years and the NIC. Is DOA. Remember how Move2Kohler said she would cross a picket line? Believe it. She will. Slam these seniority thieves in the hurt locker and lose the key. Nobody in the industry ever trusted an AWA pilot.

 

[Pi brat]

Don't know what you posted, lost all sense of logic, and now reading comprehension is going....

Way to exaggerate as usual Pi...it just makes you look foolish as usual. Notice the quote from EK doesn't say "WILL deliver an industry leading" contract but rather says "we will implement the arbitration award to pursue an industry-leading contract." So where is the guarantee you keep saying is there???

Jim

Good catch Jim. I didn't word that very well.

They didn't say they would get an industry average contract, they said they would get an industry leading contract. Is that better. And they did have "Will" in there somewhere.

 

[Claxon]

The western scheme is an alliance with Hummel. They will vote for him because they know the identity thief lawyer does not have the votes. Hummel will and has already sided with the Ferguson camp with the DCA collaborative.

 

[cactusboy53]

Wrong again CB. No where have I said that staying with the same team will guarantee success. I haven't voted yet and I haven't decided on President, EVP Sec Tres. I will be voting for a westie for appeal board, just don't want to say who an damage him! ;-)

I did just as you say and I'm sure that when the guys get done with school I will hear from them.

I know you have not stated who you voted for, but it seems that from your rhetoric, McKee is the President seem to best fit with your ideals.

I have taken the time to review videos and campaign messages from all candidates. Here's my bottom line: I believe the west pilot group will legally succeed in keeping the Nicolau seniority list in place. If that is the case then 4+ years of contract improvements, pay, vacation, and time off have been urinated away....NEVER to be reclaimed. LCC has kept those profits.

One thing I do know: Ultimately we ALL want a new contract that is at least industry standard (if not industry leading). The sole glitch is what the section 22 will look like. If you can look past the broken promises of DOH, and you want a new contract: doesn't it make sense to place your trust in the hands of someone that has the unmatched tenacity of a pit bull?

 

[Pi brat]

Pi;
Instead of sniping at the candidates, why not listen to what they have to say / offer and then simply make your vote. I think if you actually read and listen to what is offered AND perhaps take the time to seriously ask him questions, you may actually learn a little more about him (as opposed to what Mikey tells you). Here's Eric's campaign e-mail (you may have accidentally tossed it in the e-trash):

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were typing that while I posted my above response. I tossed nothing in the trash as I didn't get the links from Ferguson, I got them from a friend. I don't get any AOL mail or email. I got the one generic campaigning email and that is it.

I went to their site on my own. I watched the video and have read everything at least twice. I them emailed all three and received emails from Ken and Jeff with offers to talk. Talked to Ken, waiting on Jeff and Eric and I'm sure I will talk to them. I am just suggesting that everyone take a "show me what you have planned" attitude and not vote on some vague idea. Good advise for all candidates, don't you think?

I don't get the "stop the fight=unity" thing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just can't admit an error...obfuscation isn't too becoming...

They didn't say they would get an industry average contract, they said they would get an industry leading contract.

They said that they wwould pursue an industry leading contract. Nowhere did they say that they would absolutely be able to achieve that goal.

Jim