US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Pi,

Pi asked: ...

Pi asked... you might want to start out your rebuttal by responding to the correct person.

 

[Pi brat]

How are you doing your math?

Dean Colello was 3177 out of 4951. That makes him depending on how you figure either 100% or 64% of the total list. You must be talking about the bottom active guy. Convenient how you ignore the furloughed guys in your calculations.

Today Colello is 2569 out of 3296. Making him 78%. So did he go from 100% to 78% gaining 22% stand alone or did he go from 64% to 78% losing 14%?

On the Nicolau list he went from 100% to 100% Stayed the same. 4 years later he went from 64% to 85% Or if you figure it the other way he went from stand alone 78% to 85% only a 7% difference in 4 years.

Varini the true bottom guy went from 4951 out of 4951 to 3269/3296. Making him 99% of the seniority list after 4 years stand alone.

It's not my math clear, it's a westie's and since you guys say the furloughs don't count, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and going with active. Now you want to argue total list?!

Monda was the bottom "active" pilot on May 19, 2005 and today he is around the 79% range of active pilots. The east has no furloughed pilots

 

[Pi brat]

Pi asked... you might want to start out your rebuttal by responding to the correct person.

Well Phoenix you know that both of our screen names start with a capital P. I suggest that you change yours to keep from confusing old USA. ;-)

 

[Phoenix]

...Let's look at a [USA320Pilot] post from 2007 from a USA320, and I'm assuming you are the same one:

"USA320Pilot
Posted 13 September 2007 - 12:27 AM


Group: Registered Member
Posts: 7,326
Joined: 18-May 03


I understand the Nicolau Award is the product of an ALPA-mandated process and ALPA is bound to defend that process.

The ALPA-US Airways MEC cannot prevail in its current litigation because it voluntarily submitted to the ALPA-mandated process.

The USAPA, however, is not bound by ALPA's Constitution and cannot be subjected to ALPA’s political control. USAPA will assert its right under the Railway Labor Act to negotiate over the terms of any seniority integration.

..Under the RLA, seniority is a mandatory subject of bargaining.


.. USAPA, has a federally protected right under the RLA to change union representatives. A successor union, such as the USAPA, has the legal right to negotiate changes in the terms and conditions of employment, including seniority. Federal courts have routinely upheld a union’s right to address seniority issues within a wide range of reasonableness.

....

Regards,

USA320Pilot"

So what happened to your ethics meter between then and now. And please, please share with us who you are voting for.

Regards,
pi brat

Pi hails from Mt Olympus! Scoop of the decade!

Who knew that the 9th had the caped marauder as a consultant??

 

[Pi brat]

If you mean the bottom active east pilot as of the PID (which isn't what you said), he would have been about 67% on the east list at PID since all the furloughed and former CEL pilots (about 1/3 the east list) would have been below him at the PID. So by your wording, that guy has dropped by about 12% of the east list.

Of course, you also assume that the east "standalone" list would have been exactly what it is now without the merger. Good luck with that fantasy. Try the east list being history long before now as a "standalone" company.

What you need to do - if you want accurate info - is take a guy on the east list at the PID and figure out where he was among active or total east pilots. Do the same for the same guy today. Forget new hires - they'll be below him no matter how the list is integrated. Or if you include them, include them for both east and west - they'll also be below the west pilots no matter how the lists are integrated. Do that and then we can talk about how much difference the Nic makes. Otherwise, you're only illustrating how many jobs the east's stalling has cost the west...and potentially how much in damages...

Good work mixing apples with oranges to make some slanted point, however...I'm sure that the other lemmings just nod their heads in agreement...

Jim

You are correct, I should have said active. Now answer my questions, how are you voting and have you talked to the candidates yet?

 

[traderjake]

Barton Brands.......A union may not juggle the seniority list for the sole purpose of advancing one group at the expense of another

 

[Pi brat]

The pilots of US Airways tried it "your way" when they put Cleary in place. A more complete Icon of Failure you won't find. The East pilots have failed so miserably at every single opportunity, if I were an East pilot I would start to think that whatever my natural response to something would be, I'd need to do the exact opposite. I don't recall any Eastie admitting to be wrong about anything. Even in the face of overwhelming proof staring you in the face so I'm not holding my breath. Would you vote for Hummel if you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that there won't be a contract for another 3 + years?

Because I'm here to tell you that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that is going to be the case. Consider yourself advised.

I agree putting Cleary in place was the wrong thing to do, but he is not running again.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now answer my questions, how are you voting and have you talked to the candidates yet?

You'll just have to get along without knowing...but you're good at not knowing...

BTW, you claim to have questioned the candidates and question how Ferguson will create unity, etc. How are McKee and Hummel going to create unity and get an industry standard contract. I'm sure many are waiting to be enlightened about their fantastic plans to move the entire pilot group forward together...

Jim

 

[crazystnic]

High flyer,

I believe final and binding is final and binding, it's wrong to break a promise, and I agree with the company that LOA 96, the Transition Agreement, Section 4 (1) requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented.

Can you explain to me when it's o.k. to break a promise or violate a contract?

USA320Pilot

no nic without binding ratification...

 

[crazystnic]

I would like to hear from the East USAPA supporters how they feel about Eric's comments. I have sustained and continue to sustain the abuse from the UELs Eric describes. I would like to hear from USAPA's supporters on the benefits of this union. Bring back ALPA.

sounds like Eric Jordan has something to hide from his wife.

 

[Pi brat]

You'll just have to get along without knowing...but you're good at not knowing...

BTW, you claim to have questioned the candidates and question how Ferguson will create unity, etc. How are McKee and Hummel going to create unity and get an industry standard contract. I'm sure many are waiting to be enlightened about their fantastic plans to move the entire pilot group forward together...

Jim

You tell me what the candidates have told you and I will tell you what they have told me. Now, go hit the smoking room then fly your trip on Flight Simulator.

 

[Phoenix]

How are you doing your math?

Dean Colello was 3177 out of 4951. That makes him depending on how you figure either 100% or 64% of the total list. You must be talking about the bottom active guy. Convenient how you ignore the furloughed guys in your calculations.

Today Colello is 2569 out of 3296. Making him 78%. So did he go from 100% to 78% gaining 22% stand alone or did he go from 64% to 78% losing 14%?

On the Nicolau list he went from 100% to 100% Stayed the same. 4 years later he went from 64% to 85% Or if you figure it the other way he went from stand alone 78% to 85% only a 7% difference in 4 years.

Varini the true bottom guy went from 4951 out of 4951 to 3269/3296. Making him 99% of the seniority list after 4 years stand alone.

Clear, you accuse Pi of ignoring the furloughed pilots and then compare Colello at 100% (the bottom, i.e.. you ignored the furloughs). You don't practice what you preach to Pi.

How can Colello be at 2569 and Varini at 4951 and both be on the bottom, accept that you ignore furloughs or include furloughs, whichever makes your math better.


Heck, You don't even agree with your West leaders....

 

[Pi brat]

Barton Brands.......A union may not juggle the seniority list for the sole purpose of advancing one group at the expense of another

Hey trader. Is the above post from USA what you meant about his courage?

 

[Pi brat]

sounds like Eric Jordan has something to hide from his wife.

Do you support that type of pressure on someone that disagrees with the party line?

 

[Pi brat]

Sure got quiet. Who put the turd in the punchbowl?