US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

No Dan, I don't. You are on my list of least favorite F/Os. I found you to be arrogant, and with me borderline insubordinate. When I told you to start both engines, you ignored me and asked PHL ramp control how many A/C were in front of us. When I told you that the engines needed 5 mins warm up, you asked me where I got that and I had to show you in the A/C manual where it was required. If not for a Republic jumpseat rider you would today have a new ####. Is that clear?

But you are ahead of Jim. I despise him as I do anyone that calls me a child molester.

So on the Volant TEM model, there is something beyond Red? I guess it's Purple and Throbbing!

 

[Pi brat]

So on the Volant TEM model, there is something beyond Red? I guess it's Purple and Throbbing!

No purple and throbbing, I'd say we were still in the green, but headed for yellow as it was causing unneeded discussion while crossing an active runway.

So is that they way you guys work things out west. The F/O makes all the decisions on that type of stuff? As I said, I'm always open to input, but a CFM needs to be properly warmed up and that is one of those deals that I shouldn't have had to explain. Jim should know that, but maybe he wasn't on the 737-300 when we were having a lot of overtemps and they found that a lot of the trouble was coming from improper warmup.

 

[luvn737s]

So is that they way you guys work things out west. The F/O makes all the decisions on that type of stuff? As I said, I'm always open to input, but a CFM needs to be properly warmed up and that is one of those deals that I shouldn't have had to explain. Jim should know that, but maybe he wasn't on the 737-300 when we were having a lot of overtemps and they found that a lot of the trouble was coming from improper warmup.

No, out west we all pretty much work together. But if you've been Captain long enough (unless that's become a secret nickname they whisper behind your back) you know how to manage even the most belligerent of F/O's (most of whom I'll bet I get to meet once the lists are merged). I'll give you a hint on this one, Cappy - set the brake until you're happy with the way things are going. But you need to learn how to manage these things before they get that far. It's called "Maturity" and it's what the Check Airmen should be grading on when they sign you off.

 

[Pi brat]

No, out west we all pretty much work together. But if you've been Captain long enough (unless that's become a secret nickname they whisper behind your back) you know how to manage even the most belligerent of F/O's (most of whom I'll bet I get to meet once the lists are merged). I'll give you a hint on this one, Cappy - set the brake until you're happy with the way things are going. But you need to learn how to manage these things before they get that far. It's called "Maturity" and it's what the Check Airmen should be grading on when they sign you off.

You do not know what you are talking about. We were operating just fine together prior to this. On the 3rd request he did what I said and there was no need to set the brake and settle things. Good CRM dictates that you settle things in the proper manner, and that is what I did, instead of dressing him down in front of a jumpseat rider and having him alienated for the rest of the trip.

You are arguing this because of my stance on other things.

 

[fatherabraham]

Well, Well, Well,,,,,what do we have here?

Time for RICO II !! Jail time and treble damages !!

Oh the DRAMA!
AOL better start a new fund raiser for upcoming Internet trash vid. Here James Gandolfini is available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr4M-w5LmOM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

fA

 

[CallawayGolf]

No fodase. George Nicolau gave certain east and west pilots potential windfalls. Both the east and west pilots gave the company a windfall.

The NIC gave no one a windfall, everyone maintained the same seat, status, position they had or could hold at the time of the merger. The west had nothing to do with any of that, and neither did the Company other than facilitating a Transition Agreement between the two pilot groups.

It was the east alone who "gave the company a windfall" by not accepting the NIC. If the east was at all concerned with the company saving money on pilot wages, they could have corrected the issue in one day by simply accepting the NIC and moving on in good faith with the rest of the JCBA negotiations. In fact, they still could today by demanding that USAPA stop the seniority fight and move on to a better contract.

As much as you want to spread the blame around, it really belongs with only one group - the east. No one forced the east to fail to accept a solution in negotiations or meditations. They could have moderated and found a solution that didn't require arbitration, but they went hard line and tried to shoot for the moon. Not surprisingly they lost, but not nearly as big as they could have. Fortunately for them, George Nicolau seems to be reasonable even when the parties he is dealing with are not. Furthermore, the east had a choice to dismiss George Nicolau in favor of another arbitrator, but they didn't. So, the east walked with eyes wide open into a binding arbitration process that could have resulted in a situation with even less protections for the east than the NIC gives, and you want to blame this on everyone equally? The fact is that the west has accepted the NIC and so has the Company. Therefore, and without question, the blame for where this process is at today falls entirely on the east and no valiant attempt to share the blame will change that fact.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Uh OH, From the company's filing in response to usapa:


II. EXISTING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

It's a good thing $eham got his walking papers from USAPA before Siegel embarrassed him and his crackerjack interpretation of the law in front of judge Silver. The east loves to point out the 2:1 decision on ripeness from the Ninth, so I wonder how confident they are feeling now that two of the three litigants are telling judge Silver that abandoning the NIC is a clear DFR. Majority rules, right?

 

[nevergiveup]

The NIC gave no one a windfall, everyone maintained the same seat, status, position they had or could hold at the time of the merger. The west had nothing to do with any of that, and neither did the Company other than facilitating a Transition Agreement between the two pilot groups.

It was the east alone who "gave the company a windfall" by not accepting the NIC. If the east was at all concerned with the company saving money on pilot wages, they could have corrected the issue in one day by simply accepting the NIC and moving on in good faith with the rest of the JCBA negotiations. In fact, they still could today by demanding that USAPA stop the seniority fight and move on to a better contract.

As much as you want to spread the blame around, it really belongs with only one group - the east. No one forced the east to fail to accept a solution in negotiations or meditations. They could have moderated and found a solution that didn't require arbitration, but they went hard line and tried to shoot for the moon. Not surprisingly they lost, but not nearly as big as they could have, but George Nicolau seems to be reasonable even when the parties he is dealing with are not. Furthermore, the east had a choice to dismiss George Nicolau in favor of another arbitrator, but they didn't. So, the east walked with eyes wide open into a binding arbitration process that could have resulted in a situation with even less protections for the east than the NIC gives, and you want to blame this on everyone equally? The blame for where this process is at today falls entirely on the east and no valiant attempt to share the blame will change that fact.

There is just no good way to merge the two groups. Doing so will probably cause an accident, something none of us want. Parting the airline out is probably the best route.

 

[Metroyet]

There is just no good way to merge the two groups. Doing so will probably cause an accident, something none of us want. Parting the airline out is probably the best route.

You should quit before you cause an accident.

 

[Move2CLT]

There is just no good way to merge the two groups. Doing so will probably cause an accident, something none of us want. Parting the airline out is probably the best route.

First off, you guys have accidents without a merged list.

Second, you already have west guys flying with east guys. And you had east guys flying out west too.

If you can't handle it, you should think about parting yourself out of this airline

 

[CallawayGolf]

There is just no good way to merge the two groups. Doing so will probably cause an accident, something none of us want. Parting the airline out is probably the best route.

I take it you aren't feeling too confident in USAPA's chances of overturning the NIC. Because of that you are now looking for a less embarrassing relief valve rather than accepting, after five years and $100s of millions of dollars in lost wages, that you, $eham, Bradford and Cleary were wrong all along.

 

[Pi brat]

The NIC gave no one a windfall, everyone maintained the same seat, status, position they had or could hold at the time of the merger. The west had nothing to do with any of that, and neither did the Company other than facilitating a Transition Agreement between the two pilot groups.

It was the east alone who "gave the company a windfall" by not accepting the NIC. If the east was at all concerned with the company saving money on pilot wages, they could have corrected the issue in one day by simply accepting the NIC and moving on in good faith with the rest of the JCBA negotiations. In fact, they still could today by demanding that USAPA stop the seniority fight and move on to a better contract.

As much as you want to spread the blame around, it really belongs with only one group - the east. No one forced the east to fail to accept a solution in negotiations or meditations. They could have moderated and found a solution that didn't require arbitration, but they went hard line and tried to shoot for the moon. Not surprisingly they lost, but not nearly as big as they could have. Fortunately for them, George Nicolau seems to be reasonable even when the parties he is dealing with are not. Furthermore, the east had a choice to dismiss George Nicolau in favor of another arbitrator, but they didn't. So, the east walked with eyes wide open into a binding arbitration process that could have resulted in a situation with even less protections for the east than the NIC gives, and you want to blame this on everyone equally? The fact is that the west has accepted the NIC and so has the Company. Therefore, and without question, the blame for where this process is at today falls entirely on the east and no valiant attempt to share the blame will change that fact.

That's your opinion and you have as much right to be wrong as anyone else so knock yourself out.

"everyone maintained the same seat, status, position they had or could hold at the time of the merger." That is only true because there was not a joint contract in place. If that had been the case and we had a bid the day after the Nic, many could have held things that were much better than they could have held before the award came out.

Talk to your resident divorce attorney about fault and blame. There are always two sides to a dispute and this one is no different.

 

[Metroyet]

That's your opinion and you have as much right to be wrong as anyone else so knock yourself out.

Talk to your resident divorce attorney about fault and blame. There are always two sides to a dispute and this one is no different.

Actually it is different in that there are 3 parties here not just two. BTW, if you're not feeling too suicidal, read the Company's response to USAPA that was filed with the court a few days ago. That's what I'd call a 2x4 up side the head of your fake union. Combine that with the clarity, reason, and sound legal arguments from the West class, Once again, USAPA is alone on a desperate island in a Sea of S*&^.

Not too late to change your vote and stop the bleeding.

 

[Pi brat]

Actually it is different in that there are 3 parties here not just two. BTW, if you're not feeling too suicidal, read the Company's response to USAPA that was filed with the court a few days ago. That's what I'd call a 2x4 up side the head of your fake union. Combine that with the clarity, reason, and sound legal arguments from the West class, Once again, USAPA is alone on a desperate island in a Sea of S*&^.

Not too late to change your vote and stop the bleeding.

Been reading them and it hasn't changed my POV one bit. My vote won't change and I'm afraid that with the Ferguson team the bleeding will go on for a while. We'll see.

 

[Pi brat]

Actually it is different in that there are 3 parties here not just two.

There are two combatants, the east pilots and the west pilots. They are like the feuding spouses that cannot afford to get a divorce. The company is more like the landlord who is just worried about the house they are tearing up, but is really thrilled that they are stuck in the house and paying the rent.