US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Your examples in politics is a straw man argument. Abortion and gay marriage are not enshrined explicitly in the Constitution of the United States, therefore politicians can have varying stances without much downside. Date-of-Hire is explicit in the Constitution of USAPA.

Good God. Are you ever going to learn that your Constitution isn't worth the toilet paper it's printed on?

 

[prechilill]

Date-of-Hire is explicit in the Constitution of USAPA.

And Date of Hire WAS NOT in the ALPA constitution... You know, the CBA we used to integrate our seniority lists.

USAPA was "Johnny-come-lately", too bad for you!

 

[cleardirect]

Your examples in politics is a straw man argument. Abortion and gay marriage are not enshrined explicitly in the Constitution of the United States, therefore politicians can have varying stances without much downside. Date-of-Hire is explicit in the Constitution of USAPA.

Now, how far exactly do you think a politician would get if he/she advocated a state-sanctioned official religion? Media under exclusive control of the Executive branch? Elimination of the federal court system?

Read the C&BL. DOH is not required it is an objective. Guess what else is an objective of usapa?

SECTION 8. OBJECTIVES OF USAPA

B. To protect the individual and collective rights of the members of USAPA and promote their professional interests.
C. To establish and exercise the right of collective bargaining for the purpose of negotiating and maintaining employment agreements covering income, benefits and work-rule conditions for the members of USAPA and to promptly settle disputes and grievances which may arise between such members and their employer.
D. To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.
E. To promote the safety of scheduled air transportation.
F. To disseminate information in any responsible manner to enhance the professional status of the membership and to ensure a fully informed membership.
G. To levy dues and assessments upon the membership with which to provide the funds necessary to conduct the business and objectives of the Association.
J. To do any and all other acts consistent with and in furtherance of the objectives and purposes set forth in this Constitution and Bylaws, including the establishment of such legal entities as necessary to carry out the legitimate objectives and purposes of the Association.

I would say that usapa has failed in it's objectives of several of these things.

B. Failed.
C. Complete failure. Separate ops does not come close. I would suggest you all read document 164-3 to find out what kind of job Tracy Parrella has been doing.
D. Failed.
E. What would that be? USA Today ads?
F. Failure. Does anyone think that usapa has fully informed the membership?
G. usapa does know how to assess. How is that $45 a month paying off?
J. How did the RICO suit further the objectives of usapa?

Objective not requirement. When DOH is found to be a DFR that objective is just going to go away just like honest and transparent communication.

 

[traderjake]

deleted

 

[USA320Pilot]

President's Message - Legal Update: February 22, 2012

Fellow Pilots,

Over the course of the last three weeks, many people at USAPA have been very intently focused on the work of the pilots. The most recent Phoenix Declaratory Judgment filing deadline that passed last night resulted in a great deal of very high quality work from many people. We have had many meetings in CLT, NY and DCA; phone calls; and edited and reedited documents going back and forth throughout every day, including through the weekends -- this all to defend the USAPA pilots' rights to bargain for seniority.

Thank you to all who have worked on these projects and who have, despite the very obvious distractions, remained focused on the work of the pilots yet again. Pilots Randy Mowrey, Jess Pauley, Courtney Borman, and Bill Turbett all deserve thanks for staying on track. Attorneys Pat Szymanski, Roland Wilder, Brian O'Dwyer and Gary Silverman, as well as local counsel Susan Martin and Jennifer Kroll, all worked very hard and very well as a team. Thanks also to Communication's Todd Fieser, Chris Fillar and Courtney Paquette. And as usual, our fantastic staff has provided the quiet support that we all need.

I think I can speak for all of those involved to say that we are very proud of the product that our team has produced. It happened because we worked together for the common goal. Thank you all.

A legal summary is below describing yesterday's filings.

Sincerely,

Captain Mike Cleary
President

Legal Update

All parties to the Phoenix Declaratory Judgment action filed their responding papers on the cross-motions for summary judgment yesterday, February 21. USAPA filed (1) a Responding Memorandum (Doc. 160) to the legal arguments raised by both US Airways and the West Pilot Class in their initial filings, (2) a Response (Doc. 162) to the Statement of Facts previously filed by US Airways, (3) a Response (Doc. 161) to the Statement of Facts previously filed by the West Pilot Class along with supporting declarations and exhibits (Docs. 161-1 through 161-7) and (4) a Motion to Conduct Discovery (Doc. 163). US Airways filed a Responding Memorandum (Doc. 164) and a Supplemental Statement of Facts (Doc. 164-1), along with a supporting declaration and exhibit (Docs. 164-2 and -3). The West Pilot Class filed a Responding Memorandum (Doc. 158), a Response to the Statements of Fact previously filed by USAPA and US Airways, along with a supporting Declaration and Exhibits (Docs. 159-1 through -5). All of these papers are available in the Legal Library.

The purpose of this second round of papers is to allow each party an opportunity to respond to the legal arguments and facts submitted by each of the other parties in the first round. In the first round USAPA filed a motion for summary judgment asking the Court to issue a declaratory judgment, stating that US Airways is required to bargain with USAPA on its seniority proposal which differs from the Nicolau Award. The West Pilot Class filed a motion for summary judgment asking the Court to issue a declaratory judgment, stating that USAPA and US Airways are required to incorporate the Nicolau Award in any collective bargaining agreement they negotiate. US Airways did not file a motion of any kind, but did file a memorandum stating its view of the applicable law. Each party filed a statement of what they asserted were the "undisputed" facts necessary to allow the Court to rule on the motions.

In this round of filings, each party has the opportunity to respond to the arguments raised by the other parties and, in particular, to indicate their agreement or disagreement with the facts submitted by the other parties. If a party disagrees, and believes a fact submitted by one of the other parties is disputed, it is required to say why and to provide competent evidence to show why the facts is disputed.

USAPA's filings include not only a memorandum responding to the legal arguments made by US Airways and the West Pilot Class in their opening papers (Doc. 160), but also lengthy responses to both the facts submitted by US Airways and those submitted by the West Pilot Class (Docs. 161 and 162). Among other issues, USAPA, as part of its response to the facts submitted by US Airways, moves to strike all references made by US Airways to the finding made by Judge Wake in the Addington case, because the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the claims alleged in that case were not ripe for decision and directed Judge Wake to "vacate" his decision. The motion to strike asks the Court to have all references to Judge Wake's finding deleted from the record. USAPA has also asked the Court to strike many of the factual statements made by the West Pilot Class because, in USAPA's view, they are irrelevant to decision of the only legal issue properly before the Court, namely whether as a newly certified bargaining representative USAPA has the right to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement without regard to any agreement that might have been made by the prior representative ALPA.

The Legal Department is in the process of reviewing the papers filed by US Airways and the West Pilot Class.

The next step in the litigation will be the filing of what are known as "reply" papers, which generally are limited to addressing matters raised in the Responses filed by the other parties to the litigation. These papers are currently due to be filed on March 12. Both USAPA and the West Pilot Class have asked for oral argument, and the Court is likely to grant the requests and schedule oral argument on the motions some time after all of the papers have been submitted. We cannot say when oral argument would be scheduled and cannot estimate when the Court would thereafter issue any decision in the case. Both are completely within the Court's discretion.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Eric Ferguson (Candidate for President): February 22, 2012

Dear US Airways Pilots,

As the end of the election draws near, I would like to thank everyone for their attention throughout this campaign. Many of you took the time to write or call during the campaign. Regrettably, I have not been able to return as many of the individual calls and emails as I had hoped. This has been due largely to the company assigning me, on short notice, to a “Long Airbus Requal” class during the course of the election period. This was in addition to a couple of wasted days due to a training “false start” when the company originally assigned me to the incorrect syllabus. This all served to constrain my time necessitating a focus on communications of a less personal nature than I would have preferred through the use of “mass communications” by way of our blogs and campaign emails. Nonetheless, I hope we have answered most of your questions and concerns through our videos and the near-daily publication of new articles found in the “blog” section of our website.

On Tuesday, however, I did have an opportunity to travel to two of the three East Coast pilot bases. Jeff Koontz and I spent Tuesday morning in DCA, and Tuesday afternoon in PHL. We had the pleasure of visiting with many of you in both locations. I want to again express my appreciation to every pilot who took the time to come and speak with us and for the professionalism and courtesy each of you displayed. While, due to other company obligations, I did not have an opportunity to visit the other East domicile along with Jeff Koontz last week, I know from my union experience in Charlotte (with very few exceptions) that it is no less hospitable and professional when meeting with pilots there. Thanks again to all of you.

While we did not agree on every topic, it was again clear to me that we share much more in common that we care to admit. We all want the best for our families, as well as for the families of our union brothers and sister, and even for the industry as a whole. We may disagree on seniority, but we universally agree we have allowed management to take advantage of our divided state for too long, and we all seemed to agree that we must get our collective act together before it is too late. Everyone in both DCA and PHL appeared to keep our seniority dispute in proper perspective and refused to allow this to diminish or negate an obvious and mutual respect.

I also appreciated the East pilots who stopped by to express their clear support of my candidacy and for that of Jeff Koontz (as well as for Ken Holmes, though Ken was unable to attend due to a prior commitment). These pilots indicated that we offered the shortest and best path to an industry-leading contract in addition to the most well-developed and articulated strategy. We believe they are correct, and are hopeful to soon discover that the majority of US Airways pilots agree.

In closing, we again refer you to our campaign website, FergusonForPresident.com by clicking here. Please visit this informative site once more prior to the close of the election. Carefully review the entire website, paying particular attention to our videos and our “blogs.” Contrast our message and plan with that of the other candidates and consider how our plan differs. After doing so, it will be clear that Ferguson, Koontz and Holmes offer the best combination of proven leadership, ability, and vision needed to negotiate that long-overdue and industry-leading contract. If you have already chosen our team, we sincerely thank you. If you have yet to vote, or have chosen other candidates, it is not too late to make the right choice of Ferguson, Koontz and Holmes. Remember, if you choose to change your selection of any candidate, it is necessary to recast your entire ballot. Polls close at 1400 (Eastern Time) on Thursday, February 23rd.

Fraternally,

Eric Ferguson

 

[Beancounter]

Pi doesn't believe for one second usapa will get him doh, he's vote for hummel is all about trying another run around Nic. Such as hummel's longevity based pay scheme.

I missed that, I thought we already had longevity based pay.

 

[fodase]

I missed that, I thought we already had longevity based pay.

Hummel proposes a 30 year pay scale without regard for seat flown. I'll take a stab at it, no pay years 1-25, then massive pay increases 26 on, that way all the easties grab all the money on the way out the door regardless if they are fo or CA

 

[traderjake]

Are you ever going to learn that your Constitution isn't worth the toilet paper it's printed on?

The C&BLs is all they have to cling to.

 

[Beancounter]

Hummel proposes a 30 year pay scale without regard for seat flown. I'll take a stab at it, no pay years 1-25, then massive pay increases 26 on, that way all the easties grab all the money on the way out the door regardless if they are fo or CA

Wow, what a sack of *%&$. Screw everyone junior and future new hires. Mine, mine mine, gimme, gimme, gimme combined with give away, give away, give away. We can't get these smucks out of here fast enough.

 

[nycbusdriver]

And Date of Hire WAS NOT in the ALPA constitution... You know, the CBA we used to integrate our seniority lists.

USAPA was "Johnny-come-lately", too bad for you!

Oh? Is Ferguson running for president of ALPA? I stand corrected.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi comes here and regularly claims he is all about finding solutions. However, when I asked him to engage in a serious attempt to craft or propose a viable solution he quickly changes the subject. Perhaps that is because he knows that the only possible solution will come via accepting the NIC and any other proposal or brokered solution is sure to result in a failure. NIC and LOA93 are the only two choices for now; eventually one of those choices will be eliminated despite the east's best efforts to prevent it, and it won't be the former that is going away.

You know what I really love about you westies and Jim? You can always tell me what I think. How do you do that?

I don't put them on here because if I do and they actually do have any value, they will be shredded and never have a chance. Better to send them to guys that may actually have a chance of using them. I find you particularly unable to see anyone else's POV.

I've suggest mitigation and you guys and Ferguson say that is impossible, right? Well, a west friend told me about Eric's F/O pay rate plan. I went back and found what he was talking about, it is under the May 12, 2010 message when he was running for EVP. Here's the relevant section:

"I haven't yet mentioned the fact that I was on the AWA Merger Committee and
was present at the fabled “Wye River” event hosted by ALPA during the first
week of February 2008. Something I proposed and championed then and now,
is extended FO pay scales. I strongly believe that our pay scales should
extend to 85% of captain pay at 20 years, as opposed to capping them at
68.3% (East) or 66% (West). This would apply only to those who could not
otherwise hold a captain seat after twelve years. I went so far as to create a
spreadsheet and argue for the inclusion of this component.
I will admit that there was considerable resistance to this idea from my West
counterparts, because the lions share of the benefits would go to East pilots.
My reply to everyone was, “So what? Now that the airplane says 'US Airways'
on the side, it could just as well be one of us someday, Nicolau or not.”
Likewise, there was little interest from the East contingent because if the West
didn't cave on the seniority issue, then it was clear at that time that they were
just going to drag us into USAPA where the majority would simply try to
eliminate it. Even though the West had enjoyed an average seven-year
upgrade for many years as contrasted with far longer out East, if the long
history of inept management at US Airways didn't change we might all suffer
this fate and we should not be forced to pay for it personally. Management
(and perhaps the NAC for that matter) might tell you that “you cannot ask for
an 'industry standard' contract and this also, because it isn't 'industry
standard.'” To that I reply, “if management could guarantee an industry
standard career progression (as opposed to the industry's slowest), then we
could just forget about this.” With a little solidarity, we could stand together and
make something similar a reality, and soon if we only wanted it.
MANAGEMENT could pay for this piece (without it being yanked out of some
other part of our contract) if we insisted. After all, they have enjoyed the lowest
rates going for almost a decade- this is not too much to ask in return.
Back to my theoretical “extended FO pay scale,” and what it could mean now.
If we managed to agree to a short-term contract (or a longer-term contract with
annual increases) that merely paid the Kirby rates plus 10%, a 20 year FO on
NB equipment would earn $138. Contrast that with the current path chosen by
the USAPA leadership team which is to play every kind of delay game it can
dream up (in violation of the injunction) in attempt to remain in separate
operations thus preventing the implementation of the Nicolau in order to
capture every upgrade it can for the former US Airways pilots only. Unless a
win is realized in the “Snap Back” arbitration, or unless another merger comes
along that actually triggers (and pays) the “Change of Control” wages, then the
best that only a few East pilots can hope for is to upgrade to the industry's
worst wage of $125 and live at the bottom of the captain stack. The fact is that
more money and a better lifestyle for everyone could be (and could have been)
had with a joint contract even if it includes the Nicolau, which any improvement
to our current agreements must contain."


THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT! What the hell is this but mitigation?

mit·i·ga·tion
  [mit-i-gey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
the act of mitigating, or lessening the force or intensity of something unpleasant, as wrath, pain, grief, or extreme circumstances: Social support is the most important factor in the mitigation of stress among adolescents.
2.
the act of making a condition or consequence less severe: the mitigation of a punishment.
3.
the process of becoming milder, gentler, or less severe.

 

[Pi brat]

Does anyone have a link to the Hummel longevity pay scale I'm hearing about? If he put it out I missed it and can't find it now.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I’m not precluding the possibility that Silver could make a ruling for something other than Count 1, but I am saying that the overwhelming likelihood is that Count 1 is the way she will go. You seem to have missed the point, namely that I was echoing your previous comment from a few days ago where you said that the NIC would very likely be the list. So, what I am saying in response is that the cogent reasoning of Siegel, as the legal mind with perhaps the most knowledge of the RLA in Silver’s courtroom, is quite persuasive, especially as it comes from the one party (besides Silver) who has remained consistently neutral with regards to seniority except in its unwillingness to violate the law or be exposed to financial harm.

So here we have a guy (Siegel) who is neutral, objective, and highly experienced in the RLA and who Silver is probably quite happy to have on board as she sifts through the various intricacies created by the other two parties. It should be obvious that both of those other parties have a great deal at stake in an issue where she lacks the time and experience to give this case as much attention as it needs given the incredibly diverse interpretations of the law. Last time everyone gathered in her courtroom USAPA rambled on leaving her with more questons than answers, but when Siegel interjected his account of the events and the law, she had no more questions except on how to quickly wrap things up and go on with her day. Just that event means a lot to how she views the parties and their viewpoints in this case.

Objectively, there is nothing tenuous about the Company’s filing and it has the effect of, while remaining completely neutral, affirming the basic premise of the west class’ position and rejecting the spurious claims made by USAPA. So, in order for Silver to rule on Count 2, she would have to disagree with the position of the west, and the position of the Company and dismiss some very concrete legal references and arguments by a leading RLA attorney. Do you really think that USAPA’s second-string lawyers realy put together such a persuasive case that she will rule against two parties who are in agreement in favor of the one that was already found guilty of a DFR in Wake’s courtroom.

REALLY? I think they just sent in the !st string ! Attorneys Pat Szymanski, Roland Wilder, Brian O'Dwyer and Gary Silverman, as well as local counsel Susan Martin and Jennifer Kroll, all worked very hard and very well as a team

 

[Metroyet]

President's Message - Legal Update: February 22, 2012

Fellow Pilots,


I think I can speak for all of those involved to say that we are very proud of the product that our team has produced. It happened because we worked together for the common goal. Thank you all.

A legal summary is below describing yesterday's filings.

Sincerely,

Captain Mike Cleary
President

Wow. You'd think El Presidente would have learned by now. Every time he makes a confident statement regarding how effective ,powerful, and smart USAPA is it completely explodes in his face. Silver is going to mop the floor with their pathetic filings. It's all a verbose, desperate illusion.