US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

I believe lacks integrity.

Every time I see you use that word "integrity", it refreshes my memory on all the unsolicited emails I received in the past from people who knew you in the Navy and the Air Guard who told me about YOUR "integrity" LMAO!!!!! You just can never be taken seriously..........

Have a nice day!

NLG

 

[USA320Pilot]

Grievance Committee (LOA93 Update): March 7, 2012

An Executive Session was held in the Philadelphia area with Arbitrator Kasher on March 6, 2012, regarding his draft findings and opinion on grievance BPR 09-06-02 (Pay Rates). In attendance at this meeting were two System Board members for the Company, two System Board members for the Union, and Arbitrator Kasher.

As previously disclosed to USAPA members, the draft opinion from Arbitrator Kasher delivered in November was not favorable to the Union's argued position on the restoration of Pay Rates due on January 1, 2010.

During this Executive Session, the System Board members for the Union raised several concerns regarding specifics within the draft opinion as written. Some of the issues were obvious, minor errors and corrected with little resistance from the Company members, while other issues brought forth a contentious debate between the Board members. Some of the more vehemently argued issues were taken under advisement by the Arbitrator.

One of the issues on which the Union System Board members sought clarification was that of the 3 percent raises due each May 1 beyond the amendable date of our contract. This original language can be found in the Restructuring Agreement of 2002 and was unmodified in both LOA 84 and LOA 93. It became clear that Arbitrator Kasher did not consider this issue in his existing draft opinion because he believed this question was not before this Board even though both the Union and Company believed it to be stipulated to in the original grievance testified to by both parties at the arbitration and argued by both parties in their briefs.

Arbitrator Kasher agreed to accept limited supplemental briefs on the subject of the 3 percent raises due each May 1 beyond the amendable date of our contract using the existing record. These briefs are to be filed with the Arbitrator by both the Company and the Union on an agreed upon date before the end of this month. We would then anticipate a draft opinion and findings from the Arbitrator on this specific issue. All parties are aware of the extended time it has taken to reach a resolution on this dispute. We will work diligently and expeditiously to bring this grievance to a proper resolution.

USAPA Grievance Committee

Grievance Update (MDA Longevity): March 7, 2012

Grievance Update (MDA Longevity): March 7, 2012

This past week, the System Board of Adjustment finalized its Award regarding the MDA Pay Longevity Arbitration. As most of you are aware, this case was a result of the Company's violation of the Collective Bargaining Agreement by refusing to credit pilots with pay and longevity for the time they spent flying for MidAtlantic Airlines (MDA).

It was the Union's position that when the Company exercised its contractually negotiated right to operate MDA as a division or department of US Airways, it obligated itself to crediting the MDA pilots with pay and longevity for the time they flew at MDA. It was the position of the Company that MDA was intended to be a separate entity from the Company, and therefore, the corporate form of MDA was not relevant in the arbitration proceedings. Further, it was the Company's position that the pilots that flew for MDA were on furlough, and therefore, notwithstanding MDA's corporate structure, the pilots that flew for MDA should not receive credit for that time.

At arbitration the Union presented what it believed to be the clear and unambiguous language of the parties' Collective Bargaining Agreement and proffered compelling evidence in support of its position, which included testimony from the Union's chief negotiator. Unfortunately, the Union did not prevail at the arbitration and the Arbitrator ruled that the Company did not violate, misinterpret or misapply the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement in failing to credit pilots with additional longevity and pay for their time spent flying at MDA.

The arbitrator was not persuaded by the Union's chief negotiator, nor was he persuaded by the compelling and voluminous evidence that was presented by fellow MDA pilots. The Union requested two Executive Sessions prior to the finalization of the Award. During the Executive Sessions, Union participants traveled to PHX and met with Company representatives and the Arbitrator to discuss the egregious nature of the Award.
After approximately six hours of Executive Sessions, the Arbitrator was still not amenable to the Union's position, and while he made minor changes to the final Award, such changes were minor, technical alterations that did not impact the legal significance of his decision.

The Grievance Committee and all of the Union participants are obviously very disappointed with this outcome. In addition, the Grievance Committee remains greatly concerned with regard to some of the arbitrator's procedural errors and their prejudicial effect on the Union's presentation of its case. The Grievance Committee is mindful of the stringent standard exacted against a party seeking judicial review of an arbitrator's award but, given the particularly egregious nature of some of the Arbitrator's procedural rulings in this particular case, we are continuing to explore the possibility of seeking to appeal this Award in federal court.

The Grievance Committee and Legal will discuss this issue with the BPR and seek direction concerning an appeal.

A copy of the Arbitrator's decision is available in the Grievance Library on the USAPA Web site. Please note that the final decision is out for signature, and once completed, the parties' signature pages will be attached to the arbitrator's decision.

USA320pilot comments: Nicolau is wrong. Kasher is wrong. Wallin is wrong (MDA Longevity Pay Arbitrator). Wake is wrong. Silver is wrong. ALPA is wrong. The Company is wrong. The West is wrong. It's a pattern...

Why do people or the UEL's blame others for everything?

It's easier to blame others than take accountability for our own actions and mistakes. To admit a mistake is to admit we were wrong and the vast a majority of people cannot do that -- even if it hurts ourselves or others.

Furthermore, Brad Hall's Op/Ed column published in TheStreet.com titled "What's Wrong With U.S. Airlines" is accurate.

One point Hall discussed was “Unions have crippled the airline industry.” Hall noted, “This hypothesis has legs. Think of great organizations like Nordstrom or Disneyland. When you walk through the door, you viscerally feel a service-obsessed culture. Nearly all major U.S. carriers are unionized. Unions can survive only if there is conflict between managers and non-managers -- if the culture is toxic. Increasing toxicity is the lifeblood of unions. The Association of Flight Attendants is the world's largest flight attendant union. Its trademarked rallying cry is CHAOS (Create Havoc Around Our System).”

When I read Hall’s comment it struck me dead center that this is the main reason anti-union hardline leadership groups have formed and is the major problem that exists within USAPA (and their supporters) today.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So typical of BoeingBoy.

Yep, I call'em like I see'em...

Like I said, at the LEC level there was no discussion of how the Empire pilots should be integrated. There was no membership vote or even survey. The very first I heard of how the integration would be handled came from Gene at a LEC meeting. You both ignored those inconvenient facts and speculated to suit your "here's what I think happened" stance instead...

So show us all some facts. MEC resolutions, LEC resolutions, polls, questionnaires, anything...

Jim

 

[Res Judicata]

Well now that our Habitually Failing Union has lost yet ANOTHER big grievance, (You know, the MDA thing where the only people that DIDNT know you had to be furloughed to work there were the furloughed East pilots that actually worked there) Here's a question:

Is Ed Bular and Doug Parker going to now come after the over payments that were mistakenly paid to East Pilots with incorrect longevity? They, and our dear union, jumped at the chance of stripping money from the West pilots when we were over paid for distance learning so logic would follow that they will.

Time to see how "neutral" the East run management is going to be. If they Don't go after the East over payments, I can guarantee US Airways is going to be hit with another lawsuit.

Vote for Hummel if you want to be on LOA93 for 5 more years.

 

[Pi brat]

Yep, I call'em like I see'em...

Like I said, at the LEC level there was no discussion of how the Empire pilots should be integrated. There was no membership vote or even survey. The very first I heard of how the integration would be handled came from Gene at a LEC meeting. You both ignored those inconvenient facts and speculated to suit your "here's what I think happened" stance instead...

So show us all some facts. MEC resolutions, LEC resolutions, polls, questionnaires, anything...

Jim

You are a hypocrite, plane and simple. Simple questions, no answers, just more word games.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Every time I see you use that word "integrity", it refreshes my memory on all the unsolicited emails I received in the past from people who knew you in the Navy and the Air Guard who told me about YOUR "integrity" LMAO!!!!! You just can never be taken seriously..........

Have a nice day!

NLG

Which is why I graduated number one in my pilot training class, received the Commodore's List Award in pilot training, was ranked the number one officer in my year group in my squadron, why I was the only pilot who was the NATOPS Evaluator (Flight Examiner) at the Naval Air Test Center simultaneously in two separate aircraft, had my pick of assignments versus the needs of the military, was highly decorated, and why I am honorably retired from the Air Force Reserve as a senior officer. Oh yea...I was never in the Air National Guard.

I'm not one to boast, but your comments are off-base, wrong, and slander.

When would now be a good time for you to discuss the facts instead of trying to shoot the messenger with your incorrect information?

 

[CallawayGolf]

You of all people should know a life motivated by hate is a miserable one.

I don't hate USAPA or any of its leaders. I'm not at all motivated by hate.

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him." (Lev. 19:17)

Reasoning frankly with people is not hateful. On the contrary it is actually a gracious, kind and loving thing to do. It should be clear to any objective and rationally thinking person that USAPA has a penchant for twisting and distorting plain and simple facts to gain power over the weak-minded and gullible among us. USAPA exploits spurious interpretations of the law and contractual agreements to provide a false sense of hope on the ridiculous pretense that following or supporting USAPA will yield some positive results. Speaking frankly, USAPA has a miserable track record on interpreting the law, contract language and in providing any benefit to its constituents that could not be attained independent of their role as a bargaining agent.

Still, it is okay (moral, biblical, commendable) to hate those things which God also hates:

"I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked." (Ps. 26:5)

"O you who love the LORD, hate evil!" (Ps. 97:10)

"Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way." (Ps. 119:104)

"I hate the double-minded, but I love your law." (Ps. 119:113)

"I hate and abhor falsehood, but I love your law." (Ps. 119:163)

"For I the LORD love justice; I hate robbery and wrong;" (Is. 61:8)

"Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the LORD." (Zec 8:17)

Is USAPA (east zealots for DOH) characterized by being filled with evil-doers, being double-minded, spreading falsehood, committing wrongful acts, devising evil schemes, swearing false oaths? Perhaps so; and if it is so, then anyone who trusts in God would be well justified in hating those things about USAPA that God also hates.

 

[USA320Pilot]

In my opinion, the Grievance Committee's comment that they may file a lawsuit over losing the MDA Longevity Pay grievance is just another USAPA tactic to make their support base think they're dong something positive so the UELs can keep as much support as possible to remain in office and their gravy train(s) alive.

Meanwhile, these leaders, who served in ALPA before USAPA, keep hurting the pilots.

Whether it was the RICO Lawsuit, SLI, Permanent Injunction, parked new contract talks, or inability to work with others USAPA and their supporters continue to hurt every US Airways pilot.

Where is the money going to come from to pay for this proposed lawsuit?

Should the former MDA pilots be assessed to cover these legal fees like only the East pilots were for the failed PIC investigation, which has not resulted in any retirement benefit?

 

[Phoenix]

I don't hate USAPA or any of its leaders. I'm not at all motivated by hate.

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him." (Lev. 19:17)

Reasoning frankly with people is not hateful. On the contrary it is actually a gracious, kind and loving thing to do. It should be clear to any objective and rationally thinking person that USAPA has a penchant for twisting and distorting plain and simple facts to gain power over the weak-minded and gullible among us. USAPA exploits spurious interpretations of the law and contractual agreements to provide a false sense of hope on the ridiculous pretense that following or supporting USAPA will yield some positive results. Speaking frankly, USAPA has a miserable track record on interpreting the law, contract language and in providing any benefit to its constituents that could not be attained independent of their role as a bargaining agent.

Still, it is okay (moral, biblical, commendable) to hate those things which God also hates:

"I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked." (Ps. 26:5)

"O you who love the LORD, hate evil!" (Ps. 97:10)

"Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way." (Ps. 119:104)

"I hate the double-minded, but I love your law." (Ps. 119:113)

"I hate and abhor falsehood, but I love your law." (Ps. 119:163)

"For I the LORD love justice; I hate robbery and wrong;" (Is. 61:8)

"Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the LORD." (Zec 8:17)

Is USAPA (east zealots for DOH) characterized by being filled with evil-doers, being double-minded, spreading falsehood, committing wrongful acts, devising evil schemes, swearing false oaths? Perhaps so; and if it is so, then anyone who trusts in God would be well justified in hating those things about USAPA that God also hates.

You and 320 should shack up. Just imagine the pearls yall could pump out.

 

[nevergiveup]

I don't hate USAPA or any of its leaders. I'm not at all motivated by hate.

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him." (Lev. 19:17)

Reasoning frankly with people is not hateful. On the contrary it is actually a gracious, kind and loving thing to do. It should be clear to any objective and rationally thinking person that USAPA has a penchant for twisting and distorting plain and simple facts to gain power over the weak-minded and gullible among us. USAPA exploits spurious interpretations of the law and contractual agreements to provide a false sense of hope on the ridiculous pretense that following or supporting USAPA will yield some positive results. Speaking frankly, USAPA has a miserable track record on interpreting the law, contract language and in providing any benefit to its constituents that could not be attained independent of their role as a bargaining agent.

Still, it is okay (moral, biblical, commendable) to hate those things which God also hates:

"I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked." (Ps. 26:5)

"O you who love the LORD, hate evil!" (Ps. 97:10)

"Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way." (Ps. 119:104)

"I hate the double-minded, but I love your law." (Ps. 119:113)

"I hate and abhor falsehood, but I love your law." (Ps. 119:163)

"For I the LORD love justice; I hate robbery and wrong;" (Is. 61:8)

"Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the LORD." (Zec 8:17)

Is USAPA (east zealots for DOH) characterized by being filled with evil-doers, being double-minded, spreading falsehood, committing wrongful acts, devising evil schemes, swearing false oaths? Perhaps so; and if it is so, then anyone who trusts in God would be well justified in hating those things about USAPA that God also hates.

It saddens me greatly to see someone use the word of God Almighty to justify hate for USAPA. Love your enemies. Pray for your enemies. Being a pilot and worrying about your seniority is not what this life is about. I have no doubt that you love the Lord and more than likely agree.

 

[Phoenix]

Which is why I graduated number one in my pilot training class, received the Commodore's List Award in pilot training, was ranked the number one officer in my year group in my squadron, why I was the only pilot who was the NATOPS Evaluator (Flight Examiner) at the Naval Air Test Center simultaneously in two separate aircraft, had my pick of assignments versus the needs of the military, was highly decorated, and why I am honorably retired from the Air Force Reserve as a senior officer. Oh yea...I was never in the Air National Guard.

I'm not one to boast, but your comments are off-base, wrong, and slander.

When would now be a good time for you to discuss the facts instead of trying to shoot the messenger with your incorrect information?

That is a statement about very impressive accomplishments and speaks volumes about your integrity and credibility concerning union matters.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It saddens me greatly to see someone use the word of God Almighty to justify hate for USAPA. Love your enemies. Pray for your enemies. Being a pilot and worrying about your seniority is not what this life is about. I have no doubt that you love the Lord and more than likely agree.

I guess you missed my opening statement where I said that I don't hate USAPA. Of course at some point everyone will have to decide (or should IMO) if USAPA is intentionally misunderstanding the law or if they and their advisers are incompetent and very slow learners. If the latter is the case, then hating their actions would be pointless because they would be born out of ignorance and ineptitude. If the former is true, then then hating the lies, injustices, and perversions of decency would be the correct response. Seems pretty black and white to me, but I am only responsible for answering for myself not anyone else.

You don't think I have prayed for USAPA, USAPA's leaders, east pilots generally, and those people behind their screen names here on this board?

Loving those who hate you does not involve consenting to or approving of what they do.

 

[nic4us]

Actually I voted for a different union. Either way you figure it nic or doh with c &r's I was a captain at the time America West started and have not "stolen anything from anybody". As for calling me a scab no big deal and I can't help it if you don't understand it. When I voted for usapa I was voting for a union other than alpa......period.

Your position as "a captain at the time America West started" is irrelevant. Your position in 1983 has nothing to do with a seniority list integration in 2007.

BTW, 517 east pilots were put in front of West pilots who were also "captain at the time America West started", who were 747 captains in 1989, likely long before you saw the left seat of a widebody.

Also, we don't figure it "either nic or doh with c&r's". We figure it nic or usapa trying to scab West jobs. It is as simple as that, and you have admitted that you voted for usapa, enabling them to attempt to steal from the West.

I do want to make it clear that I understand voting against ALPA. Had there been any other reason to toss ALPA from the property, I would say close to half, if not more of the West pilots would have voted against ALPA. The problem here is that usapa was formed and compaigned on the platform of reneging on the Nic, stealing from the West, taking the West's representation out to further these goals, and you voted for and therefore approved of that platform.

So, you voted to strip me of union representation, harm me, steal from me, and advance east pilots at my expense.

I look forward to your coming retirement.

 

[nic4us]

Well now that our Habitually Failing Union has lost yet ANOTHER big grievance, (You know, the MDA thing where the only people that DIDNT know you had to be furloughed to work there were the furloughed East pilots that actually worked there) Here's a question:

Is Ed Bular and Doug Parker going to now come after the over payments that were mistakenly paid to East Pilots with incorrect longevity? They, and our dear union, jumped at the chance of stripping money from the West pilots when we were over paid for distance learning so logic would follow that they will.

Time to see how "neutral" the East run management is going to be. If they Don't go after the East over payments, I can guarantee US Airways is going to be hit with another lawsuit.

Vote for Hummel if you want to be on LOA93 for 5 more years.

How much did the MDA folks get overpaid?

It is really going to suck to be them if the number is very high.

The way I see it, either the company collects, or they are offering evidence of their collusion with usapa in disparite treatment of east vs. West pilots.

 

[Move2CLT]

Nicolau is wrong. Kasher is wrong. Wallin is wrong (MDA Longevity Pay Arbitrator). Wake is wrong. Silver is wrong. ALPA is wrong. The Company is wrong. The West is wrong. It's a pattern...

Looks like I have to update my list of east excuses.