US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

There is a big difference in the Happy that I knew and you.

He was happy because God made him that way and, bless his heart, he truely was happy and not bothered by things in this life.

As for you, you are only a selfish, disrespectful person who laughs at others to get his fun....just another DH in this road of life.

I have much more respect for Happy.....he was genuine. You...well, you suck at it.

breeze

Breeze, I'm genuine too.

I genuinely laugh at the misery you guys created for yourselves and voluntarily continue to live in.

God put me here to help you figure it out. I'm doing his work.

And I guess you know a DH when you see one. You've been living that life for a while so I guess you're kind of an expert.

You lack respect for agreements and the law but you'll learn.

And I wouldn't laugh at you but you make it so damn easy.

 

[Move2CLT]

Curious, why did God make happy that way? Was happy evil? Was God having a bad day? What?

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey easties,

Make sure you put a little away for that overpayment the company is going to go after.

Since this MDA grievance is now dead, Bular has to get claw back some cash.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

You are completely wrong!

How so. Were you at PI when Gene announced how the merging of the lists would be handled? I was. Anyone, quick - how many SLI decisions have been announced first by a company exec instead of the union(s) involved? Were you told "We'd love to give you DOH but ALPA won't let us?" When was the vote by the PI pilots - after all, I said that the pilots didn't have anything to do with it didn't I? There wasn't even discussion of the issue at any GSO LEC meetings - were you there?

You're looking at one side of the coin and swearing up and down that the coin has heads on both sides and that anyone that says they see a head on the other side is wrong...

Jim

 

[fatherabraham]

Curious, why did God make happy that way? Was happy evil? Was God having a bad day? What?

Boo Boo,

que um menino ...... apenas manter as perguntas 🙂

FA

 

[Move2CLT]

Que um menino ...... apenas manter as perguntas 🙂

FA

"Follow blindly reagardless of how stupid the logic is. "

You guys really live by that.

 

[traderjake]

Poor, poor east pilots. Your play book is getting old. Procedural errors, not letting usapa put on your case, biased decisions.

You forgot senile arbitrator.

 

[Pi brat]

How so. Were you at PI when Gene announced how the merging of the lists would be handled? I was. Anyone, quick - how many SLI decisions have been announced first by a company exec instead of the union(s) involved? Were you told "We'd love to give you DOH but ALPA won't let us?" When was the vote by the PI pilots - after all, I said that the pilots didn't have anything to do with it didn't I? There wasn't even discussion of the issue at any GSO LEC meetings - were you there?

You're looking at one side of the coin and swearing up and down that the coin has heads on both sides and that anyone that says they see a head on the other side is wrong...

Jim

PI pilots were represented by ALPA. Do you really think ALPA didn't have a say in it? Don't you really think that at the minimum there we conversations in Gene's office about it? Now you claim ignorance that you call everyone else on.

What about my other questions? Are you back to your selective answering/word games now? Did you stand on you soap box and wail about the unfair treatment of Empire pilots then, like you do about AWA pilots now? You did say you thought they should get better, right? And my DOH stance then vs. now?

I wasn't here when it happened, but a lot of my friends were. They and many pilots that I flew with when I got hired had plenty to say about how "fair" it was, how lucky they were to get acquired, how many had applications in with PI, how many couldn't have gotten hired absent a merger........you get the picture. Sounded just like SW and AT.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Unbiased Facts Update (US Airways: The Transition Agreement is a "binding document"): March 8, 2012

Dear Subscriber,

Update for March 8, 2012

Quick Fact #229: US Airways: "There's no real dispute that the Transition Agreement is still a binding document on USAPA. The (Nicolau Award) is the list that is required currently by the Transition Agreement.

Link to Article

Recent Quick Fact Updates

Site

Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

Unbiased Facts is pleased to announce our move to Wordpress.com where every Unbiased Facts publication, past and present, can be found. Find us at: http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com We hope you enjoy the new layout and fresh presentation.

Share The Facts! We encourage you to forward this email to friends who want to know what's really going on with USAPA.

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To unsubscribe send a reply message with unsubscribe.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Unbiased Facts Update (US Airways: The Transition Agreement is a "binding document"): March 8, 2012

Dear Subscriber,

Update for March 8, 2012

Quick Fact #229: US Airways: "There's no real dispute that the Transition Agreement is still a binding document on USAPA. The (Nicolau Award) is the list that is required currently by the Transition Agreement.

Link to Article

Recent Quick Fact Updates

Site

Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

Unbiased Facts is pleased to announce our move to Wordpress.com where every Unbiased Facts publication, past and present, can be found. Find us at: http://unbiasedfacts.wordpress.com We hope you enjoy the new layout and fresh presentation.

Share The Facts! We encourage you to forward this email to friends who want to know what's really going on with USAPA.

To subscribe, send a reply message with subscribe in the subject line.

To unsubscribe send a reply message with unsubscribe.

I believe every pilot should read the facts presented in this article. The Transition Agreement in US Airways' mind; along with those who oppose USAPA because the union selectively believes arbitration is only a proposal, clearly requires the Airline Parties to accept the Nicolau Award. In my opinion, this is why Judge Silver will rule against USAPA in the DJ case. USAPA's actions to delay SLI is an attempt to have a segment of the pilot group profit and benefit at the expense of others, which I believe lacks integrity.

 

[Metroyet]

The lack of integrity continues. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault. The arbitrator never knows what he is doing. Arbitrators are always picking on poor usapa.

As many years as you guys have been working under the RLA and arbitration is the way to resolve differences why is it that you guys can't or refuse to live up to your agreements?

Poor, poor east pilots. Your play book is getting old. Procedural errors, not letting usapa put on your case, biased decisions.

How many times does usapa have to have your asses handed to you in federal court? Money must be no object for you guys. Final and binding is just a suggestion for you guys. Unless you win. Oh wait how often has that happened?

These people are truly pathetic vermin. Doug Parker deserves every bit of these maniacs..

 

[luvn737s]

Yeah I noticed that also. 🙂

I don't know about you, but I just can't decide which way to vote in this run-off.....hmm, the one that stopped and chatted to me in the hallway and answered questions or

"chatted" or threatened? Are you sure you weren't told that there were folks who would find the so-called weak sisters and such and could make their lives miserable? If reports of such behavior are merely isolated rumors and ramblings, they certainly are staying on topic. Your own little east version of the T-party (T standing for "Thug").

So did you vote for the candidate who was willing to risk going into a hostile base and speak freely and openly, or did you vote for the coward who refuses to acknowledge that the largest crew base even exists?

Vote courageously!

 

[BoeingBoy]

PI pilots were represented by ALPA.

And that is the only fact you have? KTM only had "So and so told us..." You both speculate about what happened to support your position, nothing more.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

And that is the only fact you have? KTM only had "So and so told us..." You both speculate about what happened to support your position, nothing more.

Jim

So typical of BoeingBoy.

 

[cleardirect]

Damn, you east guys really have trouble reading and understanding contracts. Another arbitrator having to explain what words means to usapa. The grievance committee says that they think it was clear and unambiguous. However the neutral party thinks otherwise. That the language was clear and unambiguous that they were not mainline but furloughed from mainline.

Take the time to read the opinion. The arbitrator was very clear. FURLOUGHED. He even quoted the Naugler depositions. Looks bad for the MDA case.

When the 1998 Agreement book was amended by the RA in the summer of 2002, it was contemplated that MDA would be created as another wholly-owned subsidiary of Group. Once again, it is undisputed that pilots flying for MDA as a wholly-owned subsidiary would not have
accrued longevity under Section 22. Indeed, the RA makes it clear that MDA pilots would have been covered by an entirely separate collective bargaining agreement to be expeditiously negotiated.

In the very next sentence, Letter 84 confirmed the previous parties’ agreement that MDA pilots would be subject to a separate collective bargaining agreement while employed by MDA.

By repeatedly listing the Mainline Agreement sections that would remain applicable to the MDA pilots as they did, the parties clearly and unambiguously excluded any application of all others.
Because Section 22 of the Mainline Agreement did not apply to MDA pilots, those pilots were not eligible to accrue longevity credit under the Mainline Agreement for their time in MDA service. Accordingly, employment at MDA simply did not constitute employment with the “Company” within the meaning of Section 22 of the Mainline Agreement.

The context of the protective provisions clearly shows the parties knew that such MDA pilots were furloughed from Mainline while flying for MDA and were not flying for the Company within the meaning of the Mainline Agreement. As written, the protective measures clearly show that MDA pilots were not entitled to any Mainline Agreement benefits unless they were held back from being recalled.

The preamble paragraph of Attachment B - 2 to Letter 91, as noted earlier, applied the protective measures as written whether MDA was created as a division within Mainline or a wholly-owned subsidiary. As a general matter, therefore, it is clear that the parties did not intend for MDA pilots to access longevity accrual benefits under the Mainline Agreement. They could only be made whole if they were withheld from prompt recall due to a training freeze or coverage hold, and then only to the extent of the freeze or hold. As written, these protective provisions confirm our previous finding.

When the evidence is examined from the standpoint of the furlough status of the MDA pilots, the considerations again support our finding. The Association’s witness who was a negotiator for most of the letters of agreement also was deposed in the Naugler litigation. Page 51 of his deposition (CX 20) reads, in pertinent part, as follows on the furlough status:

* * *

Now, I had previously tried to have all those airplanes placed
on the mainline. We were not successful in that negotiation. The
company would have none of it. So we tried a middle ground,
creating an entity called Mid-Atlantic to provide those jobs rather
than what they would have done in the past before Mid-Atlantic’s
creation, just simply leave those pilots on the street.
So when those pilots come to work for Mid-Atlantic, they had
to be offered a job opportunity, not a recall from furlough, but a job
opportunity if they chose to take it. And I think our collective
bargaining agreement indicates that.

The grievance committee had an award that already answered this question. But they choose to waste everyones time and money chasing yet another rabbit. Learn to read contracts.

The Horowitz Award (CX 13) also supports our conclusions. It considered the status of a
furloughed Mainline pilot who worked at MDA when he was diagnosed with a disabling medical
condition. The Award on Grievance 06-09-01 said, in pertinent part, the following:
* * *
* * * Nevertheless, the Company and ALPA agreed that pay, benefits,
and working conditions for pilots at MDA would match those in
effect for the pilots at American Eagle rather than those contained in
the US Airways Agreement. * * * Thus, the fact Grievant remained
subject to other provisions of the US Airways Agreement while
employed at a division of the Company is insufficient to overcome
the reality he was on furlough under the Agreement when he became
disabled.
* * *

In light of the foregoing factors, the weight of the evidence convincingly establishes that furloughed Mainline pilots remained in that furlough status while they worked for MDA. Given that fact, the clear language of Mainline Agreement Section 23(A) precludes those pilots from receiving longevity credit for the time they spent working at MDA.

However, after careful review of the language of the section, we could find no text that provided for any kind of longevity accrual for MDA pilots for purposes of the Mainline Agreement.

Finally, we come to the discussion of Letter 48. Careful review of the letter shows that it provides virtually unassailable support for our determination.

The language is clear to everyone but east pilots. How long has Tracy been do ing grievances? How many has she won? How many had she said were clear and the union would win only to have the arbitrator #### slap the association?

Conclusion from a neutral third party arbitrator.

MDA pilots were FURLOUGHED.

No question, no wiggle room. end of story. I would say that a supplemental filing in the Naugler case will hit the court this week. A copy of this arbitration should go a long way towards dismissing that case. Damn man Tracy just screwed the MDA guys in the arbitration and the law suit.