US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Orrrrrr, you can accept final and binding arbitration and move on to a better contract.

Once Silver rules, a few things happen.

One, you now rely on trusting your fellow east brothers to not go for the cash and improved work rules. With no end in sight gor Loa93 and that carrot dangling in front of them, I'd be really concerned about your "unity."

And second, not negotiating in good faith is a DFR violation as well and basis for another suit.

You may think your winning with your delay strategy, but I assure you things will move once Silver rules.

There are moves to be made by our side that will move this along. Your ride is coming to an end.

 

[Move2CLT]

--

 

[Move2CLT]

1- NIC is so contraversial that it caused this quagmire......we need a need avenue. Please, we don't need to go back into all the arguments......we are chasing our tails.

2- Parker will be facing a united pilot group instead of him having control.

breeze

Nic is it breeze. Negotiations and mediation ended long ago.

Why didn't you look for solutions then?

And why do you think we can find them now?

Parker has won because you let him win.

 

[mrbreeze]

Orrrrrr, you can accept final and binding arbitration and move on to a better contract.

Once Silver rules, a few things happen.

One, you now rely on trusting your fellow east brothers to not go for the cash and improved work rules. With no end in sight gor Loa93 and that carrot dangling in front of them, I'd be really concerned about your "unity."

And second, not negotiating in good faith is a DFR violation as well and basis for another suit.

You may think your winning with your delay strategy, but I assure you things will move once Silver rules.

There are moves to be made by our side that will move this along. Your ride is coming to an end.

Obviously, the East pilots will stick together.....pretty shallow bet on your part.

Let's look at this from where you stand.....

After Judge Silver rules......and whatever her decision, you guys have absolutely no control at that point.....no other moves or leverage. You are better off using AOL to reconsider...withdraw the threat of lawsuits, working with the new USAPA, or at least sending a letter to delay her decision until your group can talk about all this. Once she rules, even if it's for the NIC, you will be at a loss for at least 5 yrs until the attrition slows down. You have no other cards to play at that point. The timing is important here, and action is required before she issues her ruling.

Move, I really am proposing that we find a new avenue, but at the same time, I can cruise along as things are until I retire.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

How is it we lose again? Aren't you under LOA93? Aren't you the one begging me for a solution? Don't you see how quickly I'm moving to compromise on the Nic? LMAO.

You don't mind LOA93 so, in return for your obstinance, you can stay put.

Nic is it. You're better off accepting it.

And you ignored the tough question I see so again,

why didn't you come up with a solution during negs and med? Why do you think we can find one now?

 

[cleardirect]

Nor do the East pilots like where we are.

If you are sincere about the greed/selfishness, etc......you and the West pilots need to have AOL send a letter to Parker and Judge Silver stating that you will come off the NIC and seek fairness instead of threatening lawsuits.

The East pilots have advantage in this chess game and time is on our side......not out of greed, but out of fairness as to what we brought to the table. You are looking at maybe 5 yrs until the seniority issue stabilizes in your favor. We can wait that long. I believe that with Hummel running USAPA, the union is not the big bad boogie man that you fear (which is what is should have been in the first place), and you will get a fair deal. The East pilots just want to finish out their careers on a decent note, which we feel that we have paid for with LOA93.

breeze

You can't be serious. Do you think that after all this time the west is going to just walk away from the arbitration and give up? We think the Nicolau is fair why would we change our position now?

Honest question. Do you really think that US Airways will remain status quo for the next 5 years and beyond? That a merger, federal judge or the company is not going to change the dynamic? What happens if the company decides that the PHL airport is to expensive with the massive construction project and they pull out. what does that do for your career? Do you think that after 12-14 years on LOA 93 everything will remain the same?

You were going to finish your career doing something else or at another airline.

 

[traderjake]

I really am proposing that we find a new avenue

It's doesn't matter how many times you ask, the West is not giving you a "do over".

 

[Move2CLT]

It's doesn't matter how many times you ask, the West is not giving you a "do over".

Breeze forgets we were in negs and mediation.

And his posts smack of desperation.

 

[mrbreeze]

How is it we lose again? Aren't you under LOA93? Aren't you the one begging me for a solution? Don't you see how quickly I'm moving to compromise on the Nic? LMAO.

You don't mind LOA93 so, in return for your obstinance, you can stay put.

Nic is it. You're better off accepting it.

And you ignored the tough question I see so again,

why didn't you come up with a solution during negs and med? Why do you think we can find one now?

Tough question....not at all.

We came up with a solution.....it's called USAPA. ALPA was not taking care of the East pilots, so we were forced to take control and kick them off the property.

Please, let's not rehash all this BS. We all know where things are and have our choices TODAY. I have made mine, but am willing to be open to anything that has new options.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

You can't be serious. Do you think that after all this time the west is going to just walk away from the arbitration and give up? We think the Nicolau is fair why would we change our position now?

Honest question. Do you really think that US Airways will remain status quo for the next 5 years and beyond? That a merger, federal judge or the company is not going to change the dynamic? What happens if the company decides that the PHL airport is to expensive with the massive construction project and they pull out. what does that do for your career? Do you think that after 12-14 years on LOA 93 everything will remain the same?

You were going to finish your career doing something else or at another airline.

Actually, Clear, as we fly our aircraft, we work with all the factual info available at the time. We don't freak out about low vis in PHL when we are still 5 hrs out. Time will tell. At this time, that is our best choice

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

To be fair, Res....the problems on the bottom of the SLI has to be addressed, too.....I am not suggesting that "straight DOH/screw the West" is the answer. But nothing is going to help anybody with where things are today.

breeze

Here is the problem. If we "address" the bottom of your list it affects the bottom, middle and top of our list.

How would you "fix" the bottom of your list? How many at the bottom of the list need something? 100-200-500-1000? For every furloughed east pilot placed above O'Dell that is a number closer to a west captain. There were only 800 west F/O's to start. So if you want 400 east furloughed pilots addressed that is 400 west F/O's that get screwed.

Nicolau saw this and dealt with it. Now it is time for you guys to deal with it. The "addressing" the problem is over.

 

[mrbreeze]

It's doesn't matter how many times you ask, the West is not giving you a "do over".

Who's asking?

 

[cleardirect]

You see, Res,

That greed in your attitude is just screwing yourself. Soon I will upgrade to A320 Cpt and I start drawing PBGC money this fall, so that puts me at about $154k/yr. I can live with that until I retire in 5 yrs. There are about 1000 pilots in the East that are in the same boat. So, we can ride that out and never vote for a new contract, or we can seek an end to this SLI and help each other.

Chess....your move, son.

breeze

LET IT RIDE!!!!!

What part of that don't you understand? We have told you for 4 years there is no compromise and we are in this to the end. If you are OK with what you have fine. STFU and stop trying to make a deal. It is always east guys talking about some sort of compromise. NO, NEVER! Is that clear enough?

You ride out yours and we will ride out ours.

BTW the east has never tried to help the west only screw us. So don't expect any help from us to fix your self created problem.

 

[mrbreeze]

Here is the problem. If we "address" the bottom of your list it affects the bottom, middle and top of our list.

How would you "fix" the bottom of your list? How many at the bottom of the list need something? 100-200-500-1000? For every furloughed east pilot placed above O'Dell that is a number closer to a west captain. There were only 800 west F/O's to start. So if you want 400 east furloughed pilots addressed that is 400 west F/O's that get screwed.

Nicolau saw this and dealt with it. Now it is time for you guys to deal with it. The "addressing" the problem is over.

So, Clear, that is where the problem lies......With the NIC, we have a big problem with the senior end of the list......without the NIC, we have a big problem with the junior end of the list. That is the problem that I have tried to talk about in the past.

I am not suggesting that with Hummel, that the list goes strictly DOH, there has to be a fair solution that we can find. I do believe that with a changing of the guard at USAPA, there is room to try and work something out to get us out of this quagmire.

But, I also think that you guys have more leverage to make a change if you move to at least delay Judge Silver's decision.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

maybe that's where you need to be corrected.....will retire in the left seat, since I can hold that now as a reserve. The PBGC money will cause me to take another look at it, along with holding a Cpt block within a year to 18 months.

breeze

Well good for you. Than you have nothing to complain about. For the next 5 years life is good for you.

Oh unless something changes! Like a merger. Or a downturn in the economy. Or they extend retirement to 67. Or PHL closes. Or they put some WB flying in PHX. Or...