US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

That says it all - you think Parker will do what's best for the east pilots...What did you ask fodase...."are you psychic?"

Unfortunately, Parker doesn't get to vote on a POR. So if he wants AA he's got to offer not just the unions but all the unsecured creditors better than AA will offer. Doing that won't be easy - take the two highest cost carriers, promise more than AA is, bring US employees up to AA pay/benefits and still make the numbers work better than a stand-alone AA...

Jim

I think Parker can't sleep, he wants this so badly. He is up right now and on the phone pushing people to make this happen. Sure he understands the risks, increased costs, and everything involved......but he also understands his bonus, stock options, and how much he will put in his pocket just to get the deal done. Then he will limp the airline along for a year or two and retire.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think...

There it is again... Don't you really mean "hope and pray."

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

So you think every west pilot would sign such a letter? How about this...a letter from USAPA accepting the Nic would end the DJ immediately. Any east takers?

Jim

Good point,

The East pilots have no need to end the DJ because there is still the contract vote in the future that keeps the NIC from being implimented. However, for the West pilots, once Judge Silver rules in either way, they have no more cards to play.....they are along for the ride. And the ride means a no vote on a contract.....no TA......and no NIC.

They would be better off trying to persuade the company and Judge Silver to give the new USAPA leaders some time in office and see what the avenues are that might get us out of this quagmire.

I am just trying to shed a little light on all this. I know what I am going to do with the last 5 years here, but think it would be better for us all to work something out.

Maybe Parker is meeting with all pilot groups as we speak, buying rounds for all, and settling thngs in a way that works for all....especially his ego. His ego IS the most important thing here....just ask him.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

There it is again... Don't you really mean "hope and pray."

Jim

C'mon Jim,

Don't be so shallow. If things continue as is....with us retiring on LOA93, I have my plan in place, and it might be better than what Parker could offer with any AA merger. So I am not desperate.

I wore out the hope and pray in the last several years. Now things are more solid and realistic in my future.

Also, if you are trying to sound like you are a smart axx and trying to belittle me, that's pretty shallow too. Actually weak.

breeze

 

[fodase]

Good point,

The East pilots have no need to end the DJ because there is still the contract vote in the future that keeps the NIC from being implimented. However, for the West pilots, once Judge Silver rules in either way, they have no more cards to play.....they are along for the ride. And the ride means a no vote on a contract.....no TA......and no NIC.

They would be better off trying to persuade the company and Judge Silver to give the new USAPA leaders some time in office and see what the avenues are that might get us out of this quagmire.

I am just trying to shed a little light on all this. I know what I am going to do with the last 5 years here, but think it would be better for us all to work something out.

Maybe Parker is meeting with all pilot groups as we speak, buying rounds for all, and settling thngs in a way that works for all....especially his ego. His ego IS the most important thing here....just ask him.

breeze

You overlooked quite a few things with this analysis, not surprising.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I am just trying to shed a little light on all this. I know what I am going to do with the last 5 years here, but think it would be better for us all to work something out.

Maybe Parker is meeting with all pilot groups as we speak, buying rounds for all, and settling thngs in a way that works for all....especially his ego. His ego IS the most important thing here....just ask him.

breeze

I can't understand how the east can't see that a consensual solution is impossible. There is no separate bargaining agent that speaks for the west to meet with, whether it's Parker, Hummel, or Judge Silver. That's why it's up to the court to decide.

If you think USAPA can just not negotiate a TA if it is on the losing side and that the west is powerless at that point, you'll eventually find out differently.

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

I can't understand how the east can't see that a consensual solution is impossible. There is no separate bargaining agent that speaks for the west to meet with, whether it's Parker, Hummel, or Judge Silver. That's why it's up to the court to decide.

If you think USAPA can just not negotiate a TA if it is on the losing side and that the west is powerless at that point, you'll eventually find out differently.

Jim

Sure there is no bargaining agent for the West. The only thing that the West pilots are holding over the company and USAPA is the threat of a DFR lawsuit. Nothing else. If Hummel and crew could come up with something that adresses many of the problems in the SLI and present it to the West pilots.......something that would move this thing forward, the West pilots, through AOL could stop the DFR threat....sending a letter to the court and Parker, stating their intentions.

Sure, it's not perfect......but again, once Silver rules, the West pilots are out of options and are along for the ride.

Yes, USAPA has to negotiate in good faith and abide by the court ruling. But again, the pilot group can vote down any contract.....therefore, no TA, and no NIC.

I am sure you think I am smoking something, but try to look at it with an open mind.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sure there is no bargaining agent for the West. The only thing that the West pilots are holding over the company and USAPA is the threat of a DFR lawsuit. Nothing else. If Hummel and crew could come up with something that adresses many of the problems in the SLI and present it to the West pilots.......something that would move this thing forward, the West pilots, through AOL could stop the DFR threat....sending a letter to the court and Parker, stating their intentions.

Only a DFR suit...that has won on the merits once already...

Or Hummel could send a letter to the court telling it that USAPA will accept the Nic...

Plus the same problem exists - all the west pilots - every single one - would have to agree that Hummel's changes sufficiently addressed their concerns since there's no entity to accept for them. It'd be much quicker for USAPA to accept the Nic...

Jim

 

[fodase]

Sure there is no bargaining agent for the West. The only thing that the West pilots are holding over the company and USAPA is the threat of a DFR lawsuit. Nothing else. If Hummel and crew could come up with something that adresses many of the problems in the SLI and present it to the West pilots.......something that would move this thing forward, the West pilots, through AOL could stop the DFR threat....sending a letter to the court and Parker, stating their intentions.

No the west pilots or aol cannot do this, it's been explained a thousand times.

Sure, it's not perfect......but again, once Silver rules, the West pilots are out of options and are along for the ride.

what crack are you smoking? The west pilots have a dfr wether silver goes with or against us

Yes, USAPA has to negotiate in good faith and abide by the court ruling. But again, the pilot group can vote down any contract.....therefore, no TA, and no NIC.

hey genius, the apa can throw usapa out and vote in any contract they want, just like usapa got rid of alpa, remember?

I am sure you think I am smoking something, but try to look at it with an open mind.

breeze

An open mind yes, but only an ignoramus mind could come up with these impossible scenarios

 

[mrbreeze]

You overlooked quite a few things with this analysis, not surprising.

OK,
Splain them to me fodase, I am willing to learn.

 

[traderjake]

If Hummel and crew could come up with something that adresses many of the problems in the SLI and present it to the West pilots.......something that would move this thing forward, the West pilots, through AOL could stop the DFR threat....sending a letter to the court and Parker, stating their intentions.

You can stop asking, you're not getting a do over.

 

[mrbreeze]

Regardless of all this......Parker is a deal maker. He has the ability to strike a deal with each pilot group and withdraw the DJ. However, you guys whine that you have no one to represent you, but you threaten with lawsuits. Just watch, Parker will put this together when he is ready, regardless of what you ignoramuses (your insulting, name calling words) are smoking out West.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

You can stop asking, you're not getting a do over.

Show me, traitor, where I have asked for a do over.....I am just discussing the current situation. Please try and come up with something new instead of sounding like a broken record......we all know where you stand.

breeze

 

[fodase]

OK,
Splain them to me fodase, I am willing to learn.

The west has already won a dfr suit based on the merits, the west can sue usapa and the company as soon as a contract is ratified regardless of what happens in the dj. No one represents the west or legally can in any negotiations, usapa is the wests only legal representative. Usapa inherited the nicolau seniority list from alpa, usapa can renegotiate any part of the contract/ta but cannot benefit the east over the west. Will Usapa's list be better for the east and worse for the west as compared to nicolau? If the answer is yes it is illegal

PS. It has been established without question that usapa was formed to actively avoid the nic. Even The company says so in their filings

 

[BoeingBoy]

Show me, traitor, where I have asked for a do over.....

Have you not been talking about a solution besides the Nic? Wanting to replace the Nic with something else is by definition a do over.

Jim