US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

Show me, traitor, where I have asked for a do over

See post above.

That's exactly what you're doing everytime you say the East has the numbers to vote down the Nic award, you're move.

 

[fodase]

Have you not been talking about a solution besides the Nic? Wanting to replace the Nic with something else is by definition a do over.

Jim

So simple even an eastie should understand

 

[mrbreeze]

The west has already won a dfr suit based on the merits, the west can sue usapa and the company as soon as a contract is ratified regardless of what happens in the dj. No one represents the west or legally can in any negotiations, usapa is the wests only legal representative. Usapa inherited the nicolau seniority list from alpa, usapa can renegotiate any part of the contract/ta but cannot benefit the east over the west. Will Usapa's list be better for the east and worse for the west as compared to nicolau? If the answer is yes it is illegal

PS. It has been established without question that usapa was formed to actively avoid the nic. Even The company says so in their filings

The west only won a case in a biased kangaroo court under Judge Wake, which was thrown out by the 9th.

USAPA's responsibility is to represent all pilots fairly, East or West, regardless of what the NIC says. If USAPA comes up with something other than the NIC that is more fair to the pilot group as a whole, kiss the NIC goodbye.

A lot of what you claim is your opinion.....and each of us have one of those.

breeze

 

[fodase]

The west only won a case in a biased kangaroo court under Judge Wake, which was thrown out by the 9th.

why was it thrown out?

USAPA's responsibility is to represent all pilots fairly, East or West, regardless of what the NIC says. [If USAPA comes up with something other than the NIC that is more fair to the pilot group as a whole, kiss the NIC goodbye.

nope, usapa cannot take from the west to make it more fair to the east.

A lot of what you claim is your opinion.....and each of us have one of those.

breeze

none of it is opinion, it is all fact. The west can only be represented by usapa. Please tell me how doh is better for the west career than the nic ? The east is holding itself hostage and then uses that fact as a reason to change the seniority award, that is not a legitimate union objective

 

[mrbreeze]

Have you not been talking about a solution besides the Nic? Wanting to replace the Nic with something else is by definition a do over.

Jim

Nope...the NIC is not carved in stone. It is one proposal on the SLI. The other is DOH with C&Rs.....but neither are in effect, right? So, we are at an impasse. I am looking at ways to move forward.

Now, son't give me that crap about the NIC is the only accepted SLI. The truth, as you guys know , is that a DOH list was presented to Parker and he called a time out at that point. Nothing has moved froward since then....it has all ended up in court. Parker has not proclaimed that the NIC is the new and approved SLI, just as he has not done the same for DOH. So, get off that BS claim.

Everything is still optional, so I am just trying to talk about any new ideas.....the old ones are worn out.

I am not asking for a do over.

breeze

 

[fodase]

Nope...the NIC is not carved in stone. It is one proposal on the SLI. The other is DOH with C&Rs.....but neither are in effect, right? So, we are at an impasse. I am looking at ways to move forward.

Now, son't give me that crap about the NIC is the only accepted SLI. The truth, as you guys know , is that a DOH list was presented to Parker and he called a time out at that point. Nothing has moved froward since then....it has all ended up in court. Parker has not proclaimed that the NIC is the new and approved SLI, just as he has not done the same for DOH. So, get off that BS claim.

Everything is still optional, so I am just trying to talk about any new ideas.....the old ones are worn out.

I am not asking for a do over.

breeze

The nic. Was accepted in writing as required by the ta. Yes or no?

 

[mrbreeze]

none of it is opinion, it is all fact.

That is where you are wrong and it is eating you up with anger.

 

[fodase]

That is where you are wrong and it is eating you up with anger.

Has the nicolau been accepted in writing by the company as required by the ta?

 

[mrbreeze]

The nic. Was accepted in writing as required by the ta. Yes or no?

At that timeline, yes. But everything changed and USAPA presented Parker with a DOH with C&Rs, which Parker, realizing the magnitude of the problem called a time out.

Just because the NIC was presented first, given the magnitude of the situation, doesn't mean that it is the accepted list over what the new union proposed. That is what is yet to be decided, so don't over simplify it. That makes you look stupid.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

The Nicolau Award is the seniority list unless it is replaced by another in a ratified contract.

 

[fodase]

At that timeline, yes. But everything changed and USAPA presented Parker with a DOH with C&Rs, which Parker, realizing the magnitude of the problem called a time out.

so you are saying that usapa wants to replace the existing accepted seniority list with a different list, is that correct?

Just because the NIC was presented first, given the magnitude of the situation, doesn't mean that it is the accepted list over what the new union proposed. That is what is yet to be decided, so don't over simplify it. That makes you look stupid.

breeze

so I look stupid, yet you write this, got it. Btw why is usapas list a "problem"

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The Nicolau Award is the seniority list unless it is replaced by another in a ratified contract.
[/quote

Or until Judge Silver says go ahead and take that doh list. Or Heaven forbid she leave it up to the company, who knows what they will find most expedient then. I guess it will then depend on which way the wind blows.

 

[fodase]

Just because the NIC was presented first, given the magnitude of the situation, doesn't mean that it is the accepted list over what the new union proposed.

breeze

anyone else want to take this? How are these guys able to hold medicals

 

[traderjake]

It's called self delusion.

It's the only way they can justify what they're trying to do.

 

[mrbreeze]

The Nicolau Award is the seniority list unless it is replaced by another in a ratified contract.

Correct, however, in the timeline of events, the NIC was the only SLI accepted before Parker called time out. The NIC is not carved in stone and at this point, there is room for other options. When Silver rules.....if she rules in favor of the NIC, that is where we are. At that point, any contract will be voted down keeping the NIC from being used.

Then what do you boys out West do? What other cards do you have to play? I mean, really? Are you willing to sit there and watch 1000 pilots retire in the East over the next 5 years before you have enough leverage to change things.....and at that point spend another 2-3 years negotiating with the company for a new contract?

Are you not better off giving Hummel's Administration a chance to represent the whole pilot group?

I think I have made my point on this and will drop it.....but it is something to think about.

breeze