US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

The AA pilots are not going to care about our seniority fight.

So...their reasons for eagerly embracing the nic, versus any other list, would be......what exactly?

 

[EastUS1]

Rome is burning sweet pea.

Nonsense...heck; they even got some substantial snow this past winter.

 

[KTM300]

As much as people like to think that Parker doesn't want a single contract, it's bad enough running an airline the size of US with 2 pilot contracts. Can you imagine having 3 for an airline the size of a merged AA/US? So eventually there'll be a single contract here if there's not another merger, and if there's a merger with AA there would certainly be one too. A single contract would either incorporate a combined seniority list or, like DL/NW, provide for one when it is determined.

Now, depending on what a new transition agreement stipulated, a combined contract might not be required before using an integrated list but having one seniority list but 3 contracts would be an even bigger mess than operating one airline with 3 separate pilot groups - imagine a 3 pilot widebody crew with each of the 3 working under a different contract - different duty limits, rest requirements, rigs, etc.

Jim

I disagree. I believe the way Parker is currently viewing it is that he realizes that it is far cheaper to operate two separate pilot lists with low wages than to combine them. Besides the asking price to accept the Nic is well above what Parker will agree to anyway. As far as merging with AA, his hope was to have the F/A's all on a single concessionary contract and operate with 3 separate pilot lists. After all from a business/cost analysis, it is only another set of books, resulting in an airline with the lowest average pilot wages.

 

[EastUS1]

I love how you guys continue to believe the fantasy of East pilots ready to vote for a deal, which screws them for life out of an upgrade that pays more, to get something now. It is an unbelievable fantasy, ......

Although I'm not personally involved with any upgrade concern; I've long wondered at the west thinking on that myself. None I've worked with seem any too enthusiastic about limiting their future left seat potential. Oh well...people will believe what suits them, I suppose.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cleared,

Cleared said: "The AA pilots are not going to care about our seniority fight."

USA320Pilot comments: Yep! I understand AOL and Andy Jacobs (AOL's attorney) have already met with APA and APA president Dave Bates. I'm not sure of what the discussions centered around, but I'm fairly certain Jacobs told Bates why the Nicolau Award will be affirmed as the US list if there is a merger between AA-US with a McCaskill--Bond SLI.

Furthermore, USAPA has taught APA (if they did not already know from their AirCal and Reno SLIs) why it is ok for a union to attempt to abandon a final and binding arbitration, violate the pilot's CBA that requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented, why it is ok for the majority pilot group to attempt virtually staple an entire pilot group to the bottom of the joint seniority list, and holding the entire pilot group hostage to bankruptcy era wages, benefits, and retirement.

Could the US Airways' F/As and Pilots end up with the Law of Unintended Consequences here?

USA320Pilot

 

[Move2CLT]

I love how you guys continue to believe the fantasy of East pilots ready to vote for a deal, which screws them for life out of an upgrade that pays more, to get something now. It is an unbelievable fantasy, but hey, keep deluding yourselves. It is entertaining for us! The miscalculations are going to take you right into an AA merge with no scope. That, will be the big wakeup. 😱

Well, you guys did end up giving away more than the company's original ask with your current LOA93, right?

And you did give away your pensions, right?

And you solidified the Nic by voting in USAPA even after Jack Stephan warned you, right?

So fantasy? No. With your history of screwing each other it's more of a possibility that you vote the Nic in than not. Glynn states pilots are giving up. Breeze and Pi know the Nic isn't going anywhere. It's time you made peace with it luv.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Unbiased Facts Update (Out of Control Union Taxation): April 13, 2012

Dear Subscriber,

Update for April 13, 2012

Quick Fact #233: In the event of a merger announcement, USAPA could assess every pilot $100 immediately, in addition to raising dues by ½% to 2.45%. All of this would be in addition to a possible extension of the PIC assessment. US Airways pilots are already burdened with highest dues and assessments in the country with zero economic gains to show for it. Should we continue this trend or change course?

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[Move2CLT]

Cleared,

Cleared said: "The AA pilots are not going to care about our seniority fight."

USA320Pilot comments: Yep! I understand AOL and Andy Jacobs (AOL's attorney) have already met with APA and APA president Dave Bates. I'm not sure of what the discussions centered around, but I'm fairly certain Jacobs told Bates why the Nicolau Award will be affirmed as the US list if there is a merger between AA-US with a McCaskill--Bond SLI.

Furthermore, USAPA has taught APA (if they did not already know from their AirCal and Reno SLIs) why it is ok for a union to attempt to abandon a final and binding arbitration, violate the pilot's CBA that requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented, why it is ok for the majority pilot group to attempt virtually staple an entire pilot group to the bottom of the joint seniority list, and holding the entire pilot group hostage to bankruptcy era wages, benefits, and retirement.

Could the US Airways' F/As and Pilots could we end up with the Law of Unintended Consequences here?

USA320Pilot

That is correct. Our attorneys have been in contact with APAs counsel.

 

[nevergiveup]

Well, you guys did end up giving away more than the company's original ask with your current LOA93, right?

And you did give away your pensions, right?

And you solidified the Nic by voting in USAPA even after Jack Stephan warned you, right?

So fantasy? No. With your history of screwing each other it's more of a possibility that you vote the Nic in than not. Glynn states pilots are giving up. Breeze and Pi know the Nic isn't going anywhere. It's time you made peace with it luv.

How are those career expectations working out for you?

 

[Move2CLT]

I can't find anywhere in the transition agreement where the American pilots get to vote on our contract and thus allowing the NIC to be used. Voting is a type of check and balance for the award. Refer to the ninth and what they said if you wish.

Because you don't understand anything.

The list that will go to arbitration with APAs lost will be the Nic.

We will vote for a contract before the integration and with the money that'll be offered, it will pass on our side.

 

[Move2CLT]

I'm not sure I follow Jim, as the NIC award favored the West minority of pilots.

incorrect.

It favored the east by giving them the first 500+ slots.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Leonidas Update (Notice of Order): April 13, 2012

As the world prepares to mark the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the unsinkable, yesterday the Federal District Court for the Eastern District of New York granted ALPA's Motion for Summary Judgment against the MDA plaintiffs. This is the same Naugler v. ALPA case which USAPA placed great reliance upon in their arguments before Judge Silver in the company's declaratory action. As a consequence of the dismissal order, West attorneys filed a "Notice of Order" in the declaratory action. It is numbered as Doc 179. Filed along with the Notice were two exhibits: Doc 179-1 is the dismissal order in the Naugler case, and Doc 179-2 are the relevant transcript pages from the last hearing held before Judge Silver wherein USAPA counsel attempts to use Naugler to advance their position. The Notice of Order is a short read - one page - because the damage to USAPA's position by the Naugler dismissal is easily explained by Dr. Jacob in a few sentences.

Thank you for your continued support. Remember: justice isn't free.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

www.cactuspilot.com

 

[Move2CLT]

So, MDA losers, what's it going to be?

ALPA purses court costs from you guys if you go for the appeal or,

ALPA agrees not to go for court costs if you drop any attempt for an appeal.


Either way, it's a pretty expensive road.

My guess is that it's over. ALPAs court costs are pretty high and spread out among 150 plaintiffs, thats big money.

Painted corner, I'd like to introduce you to Naugler.

 

[Freighterguynow]

That is correct. Our attorneys have been in contact with APAs counsel.

Ferg 2005 DOH and in the bottom 75 at America Loser West can be Captain under Nic.

Junior Cap AMR 1992

Go for it

 

[mrbreeze]

USA320Pilot comments:[/b] I'm not sure of what the discussions centered around, but I'm fairly certain Jacobs told Bates why the Nicolau Award will be affirmed as the US list if there is a merger between AA-US with a McCaskill--Bond SLI.

USA320Pilot

question.....

Is this an oxymoron....or just a moron pushing his agenda?

breeze