US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

As a result, America West Holdings and its wholly owned subsidiary AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. In addition, AWA transferred substantially all of its assets and liabilities to US Airways. All off-balance sheet commitments of AWA were also transferred to US Airways. This transaction constituted a transfer of assets between entities under common control and was accounted for at historical cost.
you were saved by US from "project Zanzibar"

Oh OK! Why don't you contact Nicolau and the bankers that testified under oath and tell them that they got it wrong. Maybe you can get that seniority list changed.

Tell him that you guys on the east really know what happened and the rest of the world got it wrong.

 

[Metroyet]

As a result, America West Holdings and its wholly owned subsidiary AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. In addition, AWA transferred substantially all of its assets and liabilities to US Airways. All off-balance sheet commitments of AWA were also transferred to US Airways. This transaction constituted a transfer of assets between entities under common control and was accounted for at historical cost.
you were saved by US from "project Zanzibar"

Uh-Huh. Why then...pray tell...did America West, and America West MONEY have to be injected into the old US Airways for your LAST TWO PAY PERIODS before the merger? I'll tell you why. Your oh-so-profitable-airline, with it's oh-so-coveted route structure, didn't have enough money in the bank to allow you to cash your LOA93 pay check.

Think about that. Think about how pathetic that is. You and your LOA93 paycheck....STILL not enough cash. Man, what an absolutely catastrophic failure of an airline you USED to work for. Luckily for you; Dougweiser was obviously on a bender and thought snatching you out of the swirling toilet bowl was a good idea. Personally, I think you're all as equally qualified as everything else that swirls down a toilet bowl...or attempts to steal jobs they have no right to.

Sleep well knowing that pretty much ANY other co-pilot makes more than your captains...without the draconian work rules. There's no end in sight either. Sleep tight sweet-pea.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As a result, America West Holdings and its wholly owned subsidiary AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. In addition, AWA transferred substantially all of its assets and liabilities to US Airways. All off-balance sheet commitments of AWA were also transferred to US Airways. This transaction constituted a transfer of assets between entities under common control and was accounted for at historical cost.
you were saved by US from "project Zanzibar"

As I've said before when the East was crowing about the leverage gained from the change of control in the contract, this was merely corporate maneuvering to avoid that CoC language. Why people can't just accept that the merger undoubtedly saved US and possibly HP and move on is a mystery.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Just because Hitler was psychotic did not give his soldiers reason to betray one another. Those that did deserved to be fragged. If you don't like the leadership, you vote them out. That's called Democracy. Betrayal is called cowardice.

V

What a bleeping sheep you are.

Following your logic the Germans soldiers are to be admired for supporting each other while they were killing Jews.

Hitler never would have come to power with the mindless support of the German people including the German Army.

One more time for USAPA supporters

"Loyalty above all else........except honor"..................... Lieutenant Vincent Hardy: the movie Striking Distance

 

[N924PS]

"career" is that what you call 15 years of the lowest pay, junk medical,no retirement,laughing stock of a airline. you really are a joke.

Hah Hah.

15 years of junk medical, minimal retirement, and laughing stock of an airline.

That likely describes the next 15 years (if you have that much time left) of your career at USairways under LOA 93.

The joke's on you.

 

[N924PS]

No, mutual support is when you stand shoulder to shoulder with your comrades in arms. Often times you fight a war you don't even agree with. Regardless, you don't let your compatriots down when they need you. They may also be fighting a war they don't agree with but they will fight to the death as it their duty to defend one another. If you don't like the war, you don't let others fight for you. It is never up to us individually to decide what fronts we are to defend. Politicians decide that. You are either with us or against us. If against us, I suggest you go hide out in Canada until the war is over, then maybe you can get amnesty and return. Until then, either fight with us or get out.

V

Does My Lai, 1968, ring a bell with you. Mutual support, or something like that.

 

[traderjake]

No, mutual support is when you stand shoulder to shoulder with your comrades in arms. Often times you fight a war you don't even agree with. Regardless, you don't let your compatriots down when they need you. They may also be fighting a war they don't agree with but they will fight to the death as it their duty to defend one another. If you don't like the war, you don't let others fight for you. It is never up to us individually to decide what fronts we are to defend. Politicians decide that. You are either with us or against us. If against us, I suggest you go hide out in Canada until the war is over, then maybe you can get amnesty and return. Until then, either fight with us or get out.

V

Men don't make decisions, especially life and death decisions, based on peer pressure or blind loyality.

They think themselves and they don't get themselves killed because some politician tells them to fight.

Mindless sheep and Junior High School girls make decisions based on peer pressure and blind loyality.

 

[A320 Driver]

Men don't make decisions, especially life and death decisions, based on peer pressure or blind loyalty.

They think themselves and they don't get themselves killed because some politician tells them to fight.

Mindless sheep and Junior High School girls make decisions based on peer pressure and blind loyalty.

You people have gone off the deep end. A seniority dispute with references to a REAL war and, HITLER????
Maybe it's time for a reality check here, but, this will pass when it has run it's course if it is not elevated to unrealistic (psychotic) levels by some of the players.

One pilot, one vote, let the chips fall where they may and MOVE ON.

Driver <_<

 

[Code Name V]

What a bleeping sheep you are.

Following your logic the Germans soldiers are to be admired for supporting each other while they were killing Jews.

Hitler never would have come to power with the mindless support of the German people including the German Army.

One more time for USAPA supporters

"Loyalty above all else........except honor"..................... Lieutenant Vincent Hardy: the movie Striking Distance

Don't reply to me again. You have no credibility. Just don't let on to the people you fly with that you are a smiling, good guy but will stab them in the back at the first opportunity and will 'likely' scab if given the chance. If they knew you, you would be flying solo.
V

 

[Code Name V]

I worked for AWA through that time period, it was a ####, not fun at all. Neighbors asking me what was going on with America West and so on and so forth. It was embarrassing, but we perservered. Throughout it all though, flight ops was top notch, alot of east folks make fun of Australian scabs, drug runners and this and that, but I have a different viewpoint.

I was raised in a Legacy carrier household, my father was one of the fortunate. When I came to AWA, I found the equal of my father and his peers, only they weren't quite so fortunate. They worked for such carriers as Braniff and Eastern. We had academy grads and fighter jocks to, the best of the best. Flight ops was always top notch. And thankfully management figured out how to extricate us from what you quote.

I don't care what you write, AWA pilots as a whole are the equal of any.

While it is against my nature to side with the enemy; in this case, I have to agree with you and recognize the value of your implications. The reality is and has always been that airlines normally have a pretty good mix of experience and all have a percentage of the exceptional as well as losers. Unfortunately, some have a higher percentage of one over the other and when pilots were pushed out of the hiring process and replaced by HR, I am certain that there was a profile they began looking for where the newbies would likely be of the 'I want it now' gender so that they would never unify with their piers if necessary. It is also the reason they accepted scabs to infect the ranks.

The other issue in your statement is that, since pilots are pilots are pilots; it is ridiculous to fault them for the greedy incompetent management teams that they are forced to work under. This was the downfall of the senile near dead named Nicolau where he tried to relate incompetent management to the most qualified and competent segment of the company. The result is the biggest abortion of a merger in history.

V

 

[Code Name V]

Does My Lai, 1968, ring a bell with you. Mutual support, or something like that.

You will never be a team player so spin it any way you want. I'm sure you were never a wingman or had to support one in battle. If so, I wonder if you would have questioned the attack over protecting one of your own for your own worthless, self serving hide. And I clearly understand the difference between a lawful vs. an unlawful order. That is the difference in the previous references to honorable officers who questioned their superiors. So far, there have not been any unlawful orders followed by this organization, regardless of what you personally believe.

V

 

[BoeingBoy]

So far, there have not been any unlawful orders followed by this organization, regardless of what you personally believe.

Just as in the military during war, the individual has an opinion of whether an order is unlawful while the "judiciary" makes the official determination after the fact. You "think" that USAPA has done and will do nothing illegal but that's only your opinion based on it attempting to produce a result you desire.

Jim

 

[prechilill]

I'm sure you were never a wingman or had to support one in battle.
V

EastUS??? Hello there! You've been found

 

[767jetz]

And I clearly understand the difference between a lawful vs. an unlawful order. That is the difference in the previous references to honorable officers who questioned their superiors. So far, there have not been any unlawful orders followed by this organization, regardless of what you personally believe.

V

While you may very well understand the difference between a lawful and unlawful order, IMO where many of you fall short is in understanding who gets to decide what is lawful and what is not. It is not USAPA, the east majority or anyone on this forum. It is the court system and the laws governing the society we choose to live in. Until this country votes in a dictatorship, and talk of revolution starts to fester, we are all bound by the same legal structure.

It is very convenient to speak of honorable behavior and lawful conduct when you believe that YOU are the ones who can choose and dictate what is lawful and what is not, what is fair and what is not, what is right and what is wrong, as it suits you just because you wield the power of majority. However, if the courts eventually rule that binding arbitration between two willing parties, who signed on the dotted line, can not be overturned by a vote, and deliberately ignoring such a ruling with delay tactics, failing to negotiate in good faith, and using the majority status to benefit one group over the another is indeed illegal... THEN you will certainly be proven to have been following unlawful orders. ("regardless of what you personally believe" as you so eloquently stated.) This is exactly what management, the Addington plaintiffs, and several others are trying to get the courts to determine.

Faced with so many countering arguments, a reasonable, honorable person would then at least start to question their blind faith, CONSIDER a different point of view, and consider a different possible outcome, rather than attack, chastise, and bully anyone among you who doesn't follow your union's marching orders. It is behavior like this that starts to air a sense of desperation that is becoming apparent on this forum (ie: calling people names, and lashing out in anger, etc.). I agree with A320 Driver that the chips will fall where they may. Your fate rests in the hands of the legal system. If at some point you feel that your legal options are running out and the outcome you wish for is slipping away, it might be time to re-evaluate you options. Until then, accept the status quo and we'll see what the courts have to say.

 

[Black Swan]

Just as in the military during war, the individual has an opinion of whether an order is unlawful while the "judiciary" makes the official determination after the fact. You "think" that USAPA has done and will do nothing illegal but that's only your opinion based on it attempting to produce a result you desire.

Jim

There is absolutely nothing on the table that could be termed unlawful with regard to USAPA leadership or actions. This is more than opinion as you imply. I ask you, what unlawful acts have been perpetrated? What are the unlawful acts being contemplated? I ask you, as you are treading this uncertain path, what unlawful acts are you contemplating? And is it unlawful to participate in an organization that is "attempting to produce a result you desire.?" The fact one votes to participate in the democratic process in this country and the desire for the outcome being a result being one you desire is now a suspicious and corrupt process?