US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

No way it can be a 3 way. Usapa is the bargaining agent. Final and binding placed the west in a certain position. Usapa bargaining for anything that does not retain those rights is a DFR.

We all saw that the MDA guys lost that DFR case because ALPA operated correctly. Usapa putting west pilots farther down a list in favor of east pilots would be a DFR. That is damages that APA would ultimately pay. They are not going to put themselves in that position.

Besides. With an injunction threat in hand what do you think a federal arbitrator is going to do? Use a final and binding list or one that the outgoing union made up?

Something else to keep in mind is a DOH list or anything other than Nicolau requires C&R. How does usapa get the company to accept C&R? Do you think that the APA will give up any money to pay for your C&R's? Or waste the time to get that done?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I didn't think USAPA could become more meaningless and insignificant, but, like some burlesque freak show, they always manager to continue to surprise...

 

[EastUS1]

I'm neither surprised nor offended by your remarks.

Well...only insomuch as you've claimed a rather marginal IQ, that nonetheless should afford you better material, am I surprised by yours. Don't flatter yourself further.

I find it amusing that as momentous events occur, for both your beloved west and derided "easties", (of which you were one)...that, regardless of your supposedly extensive "knowledge" base....that you've really got nothing useful to say.

Oh well. Have a pleasant day...assuming you're even capable of such. I'll have to stick with feeling somewhat sorry for you.

 

[PullUp]

I believe the majority of US Airways pilots would accept the Nicolau Award with the APA CLA agreement as their new contract. And, they would accept the Nicolau Award as our seniority list for the a McCaskill-Bond SLI with AA's pilots. In my opinion, the time has come to ask the questions above to see if my opinion is accurate.

Depends what the Judge says...if she does not specifically rule that the 'nic is it', then a three way SLI - with the existing seniority lists - would be in order.
However, if she decrees that the nic must be used, then it's time to ask how much $$ doug has in his wallet to facilitate utilizing the list without a combined contract first.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

Depends what the Judge says...if she does not specifically rule that the 'nic is it', then a three way SLI - with the existing seniority lists - would be in order.
However, if she decrees that the nic must be used, then it's time to ask how much $$ doug has in his wallet to facilitate utilizing the list without a combined contract first.
Cheers.

I think it is cute that you think you have any say in this anymore.

Usapa is not going to negotiate anything. They are not going to have a chance to ask Doug anything. The Nicolau will be the list going into the next merger. You will as you never had no vote or choice on the seniority list. We will all move to AA new contract and that will be it.

Majority rules according to usapa. There is a new majority in town and it ain't east pilots.

 

[mrbreeze]

Can someone post or show me where to find the APA letter that was issued to their pilots?

Thx,
breeze

 

[nic4us]

Depends what the Judge says...if she does not specifically rule that the 'nic is it', then a three way SLI - with the existing seniority lists - would be in order.
However, if she decrees that the nic must be used, then it's time to ask how much $$ doug has in his wallet to facilitate utilizing the list without a combined contract first.
Cheers.

A three way between what and whom? Three companies would not be merging.

You put it in your own post without even realizing it. I bolded it for you.

There are 4 lists at LCC. Three that govern seperate ops. east, West, newhire. And one that governs totoal system seniority, the Nic.

So which one, of the four do you think would be used in an AMR/LCC merger? The east, West, what do we do with the newhires vs. APA, or the Nic vs APA?

As far as how much does Doug have in his wallet, will be evident in the tentative agreement offered the APA.


Another question that is unanswered here is from where does usapa and the APA get the lists of pilot names and their seniority? They get it from the respective companies. Do you think for one minute the company will give usapa any list other than the list they accepted in writing in compliance with a contractual commitment? No way! they will hand uspa the Nic, and if usapa gave anything other than the Nic to the APA, the APA will end integration right there.

Further, if the APA and usapa proceeded with anything other than the Nic, AOL stops the ball from rolling right then and there.


Hopefully Silver will rule soon, and we will see how it goes from there. But, barring any off the wall decision from the judge, (like granting LCC immunity from any and all litigation started by any pilot in the West class for any reason whatsoever) the overwhelming likleyhood is what we have all known all along. The Nic is between the east and West pilots, and it does not matter who represents those pilot groups, final and binding means final and binding.

 

[EastUS1]

Can someone post or show me where to find the APA letter that was issued to their pilots?

Thx,
breeze

You probably already have this site, but for any that don't; it at least offers a thumbnail of the APA position:

https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/ctl/ArticleView/mid/1983/articleId/1100/AA-US-Airways-Our-Best-Alternative.aspx

Perhaps of most interest are the following extracts:

"7. How would my seniority be affected by a combination of American Airlines and US Airways?

Airline industry seniority integrations are now governed by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment, which became law in 2007. McCaskill-Bond requires a “fair and equitable” integration of seniority lists and includes a provision for a negotiated settlement between the parties. If the integration cannot be settled within 20 days, either party may refer the dispute to a neutral arbitrator, who must render a decision within 90 days. (In practice, the parties generally agree to extend the time limits as necessary.)

8. Would we be forced to work under the US Airways pilot contract?

No. APA has negotiated a Conditional Labor Agreement (CLA) that is outlined in the new term sheet with US Airways management.

9. Would a merger result in pilot furloughs?

Under the terms of APA’s CLA with US Airways management, there would be 100 percent furlough protection for our pilots."

While it's not unreasonable for the APA's writings to address only their own concerns; it's "interesting" that nothing is phrased as to directly involve the US segment in any furlough protection (quite the contrary in fact) or even specific contract under which the US side would be working. It seems that a lot of pure assumptions are being posted to these boards.

 

[Phoenix]

A three way between what and whom? Three companies would not be merging.

You put it in your own post without even realizing it. I bolded it for you.

There are 4 lists at LCC. Three that govern seperate ops. east, West, newhire. And one that governs totoal system seniority, the Nic.

So which one, of the four do you think would be used in an AMR/LCC merger? The east, West, what do we do with the newhires vs. APA, or the Nic vs APA?

As far as how much does Doug have in his wallet, will be evident in the tentative agreement offered the APA.


Another question that is unanswered here is from where does usapa and the APA get the lists of pilot names and their seniority? They get it from the respective companies. Do you think for one minute the company will give usapa any list other than the list they accepted in writing in compliance with a contractual commitment? No way! they will hand uspa the Nic, and if usapa gave anything other than the Nic to the APA, the APA will end integration right there.

Further, if the APA and usapa proceeded with anything other than the Nic, AOL stops the ball from rolling right then and there.


Hopefully Silver will rule soon, and we will see how it goes from there. But, barring any off the wall decision from the judge, (like granting LCC immunity from any and all litigation started by any pilot in the West class for any reason whatsoever) the overwhelming likleyhood is what we have all known all along. The Nic is between the east and West pilots, and it does not matter who represents those pilot groups, final and binding means final and binding.

Is judge Silver ruling on the TA of AA, AWA, and LCC?

 

[EastUS1]

No way! they will hand uspa the Nic, and if usapa gave anything other than the Nic to the APA, the APA will end integration right there.

I make no predictions on any of this, but ; consider what you just wrote there.

Uncharted waters and interesting times methinks......

Addendum: What's sadly amusing is to see all the furious fluttering of pom poms: "Yea!...We're gettin' Delta +3!...The APA's gonna' just love us, the nic, everything about us and eagerly embrace us all!...It's in the bag!....the "best part" is that no one's even talked to the union!...Tee Hee!...How way cool is that?...THAT must certainly mean that all offers to the APA are the exact same as we'll get!...Parker, who doesn't really give a rat's arse about us, or running disparate pay rates within groups...has finally seen the light and loves us!...Yippee!....and, cue Tiny TIm: God Bless us, every one!"..."Pay no attention to that Parker behind the curtain!"..."or that no furlough assurance for "our" pilots noted by APA"

 

[Phoenix]

I make no predictions on any of this, but ; consider what you just wrote there.

Uncharted waters and interesting times methinks......

We are living through complex "contingencies" of a degree far greater than even Lee Seham foresaw, or that even the 9th could have imagined would materialize during bargaining... And to thank Judge Wake thought he was smarter.... Lets see if Silver is stupidly courageous to venture into it all...

 

[EastUS1]

We are living through complex "contingencies" of a degree far greater than even Lee Seham foresaw, or that even the 9th could have imagined would materialize during bargaining...

Indeed brother, and then some methinks. It'll be an "interesting" ride, that much at least, is sadly certain.

 

[Res Judicata]

When the scab coward USAPA reps stood up the APA this morning over a complaint that they weren't given their required 48 hrs notice, it should have been pointed out that NOBODY on the USAPA team had more than 2 minutes notice that Doug signed Industry leading contracts with 55 THOUSAND employees and 3 unions over at ANOTHER Airline.

Such F'in Idiots. I'm sure the APA is really impressed with USCABA.

 

[Phoenix]

When the scab coward USAPA reps stood up the APA this morning over a complaint that they weren't given their required 48 hrs notice, it should have been pointed out that NOBODY on the USAPA team had more than 2 minutes notice that Doug signed Industry leading contracts with 55 THOUSAND employees and 3 unions over at ANOTHER Airline.

Such F'in Idiots. I'm sure the APA is really impressed with USCABA.

When the French Revolution occurred many people had to stand in line for their turn at the guillotine. Some took great pride that they were at the back of the line. They were glad that they weren't the idiots at the front.

 

[Move2CLT]

You might ask your doc if there is a Lomotil for the brain. You have a serious case of diarrhea of thought.

You probably make 20 posts for every one that East makes, and then you embarras yourself by telling East that he like to type.

What a fool! And you look more and more foolish with every post.

I takes 20 posts to point out the stupidity in each east post.

You guys work me too hard. Claxon and MM alone. Oils keep me busy for a whole.