US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Nice, Silver WILL sign! What happened to the crack Judge Wake when he tried? He got his britches take down by REAL judges. 😱 Face it kids, your seniority theft was overtaken by events after you took too long to figure out you need a CBA to implement seniority. Now you will never have a deal without a three way with APA. The Nic is absolutely done, done!

Hey Luv check this out... From Hummel's update.

USAPA's Officers have been in conversation with their counterparts at the Allied Pilots Association the past few days, and have scheduled their first face-to-face meeting next week to discuss the details of a potential merger.

You know what that tells me?

usapa has been left on the sidelines. The APA, TWU, and AAFA have all been in talks with Tempe for weeks, and usapa was nothing more than an afterthought. Further, AOL had contact with the APA prior to usapa. Want to know why?

usapa is as good as gone. No leverage, no support, nothing to bring to the table except a bunch of cheating scumbags who nobody trust. The little union busting lawyer swindled you morons out of tens of millions, so I understand why you are so upset, but try to get back to reality.


Bottom line. No judge in this country will dismiss a final and binding arbitration award because one side whines it is unfair. No player in a future merger will allow a bunch of reneging malcontents any say in future bussiness transactions.

 

[Claxon]

The APA wipes all of that away with your new contract...your JOINT contract. You're now in the extreme minority. I'm sure you can appreciate democracy in action. Do you think the APA is going to risk losing their pensions for you? Nope. Nothing is going to stop this deal and DUI got a hell of a lot smarter in dealing with you idiots.

You don't have a JCBA now so if their is "NO LIST" what's been the delay for over 4 years? The Delay is the fact that there IS a list. Silver will explain it to you. I'd ignore the USCABA spin, it's always full of lies and misdirection. Oh, and your "room to modify" takes agreement of the company. They'll never touch anything that smells like a DFR against the West. Should be obvious by now. How stupid are you?

USAPA is about to lose 40% of their income going into the merger of a lifetime. This is going to be fun.

You are ALL going to get it hard in this one with Parker and the APA. Parker has just thrown the western brothers under the APA bus too, and they are hammering down the details of the final and binding for eastern and western ops. That Nic was the biggest mistake ever, and it fragmented you both just in time for the APA and Parker to kick you both to the curb. That APA dusted Leo and USAPA nicely, they usually take matters into their hands very well. Got to give it to Parker, he just laughed at both of your battles until he had to step in with other matters.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Really JIM ya think? My point was if doug wants (now follow here) a jcba to merge with AA it will have to pass an EASTWEST vote, if he modifies the T/A which he can goes to 3 lists, which could easily be decided by USAPA and APA, my guess dead by years end! Besides if you read BATES letter to the APA(the long one in the AA thread) he tells the pilots US(DUI DOUG) mngmnt triggering no COC for AA's officers but in effect if that is true it would trigger an EAST CBA COC for the EAST pilots bringing us full circle to why vote for a "NIC" EAST WEST CONTRACT before any merger! My guess the "SECURED CREDITORS" will rule the day!

Yep, a day late and a dollar short....sad that you can only see the possibilities that you want and the rest are invisible to you. Don't worry, Kasher is going to come through with his "if you owe them you'll pay them" from that LOA 93 grievance any day now...don't you and luv spend it all in one place...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

NO JCBA NO NIC, the 9th circuit when asked will inform all parties they are cleared to bargain, they involve the NIC without a JCBA the company will be sued by a large group of EAST pilots!

sue away loser.

go in front of a federal judge and explain that as a group of east pilots who have a contract with the company and the West pilot group, you did not like the outcome of a final and binding arbitration award.

Then try and find the part of the contract that says you have a vote that is a virtual trump card to final and binding arbitration.

 

[nic4us]

Have you stopped your dues check off yet?

Never had dues check off.

 

[Ames]

NO JCBA NO list, read the T/A room to modify, BTW DUI is going to need something like SCOPE REDUCTION LANGUAGE , and relaxation of the COC provision, my guess the WEST class will get the ejector seat, BTW Fun to talk about but my advice make sure your trailing stop loss is in place on your LCC stock!

There will be a new JCBA. Your problem is that the new majority will vote it in. You fail to realize your insignificance in this new venture and we on the west are laughing pretty hard at you.

 

[Phoenix]

sue away loser.

go in front of a federal judge and explain that as a group of east pilots who have a contract with the company and the West pilot group, you did not like the outcome of a final and binding arbitration award.

Then try and find the part of the contract that says you have a vote that is a virtual trump card to final and binding arbitration.

Relax. If there is a new merger, there will be a new negotiated TA that will replace the current TA (According to the APA in about 60 days). Don't sweat it the APA is real concerned about an old TA that is obsolete now. Cancel your membership dues and use the money to buy a few margaritas. Enjoy life and buy a little popcorn too.

P.S. Change your screen name because in a few months no one will know what the He!! nic means. Come to thank of it, I may have to change my screen name too in a couple years.

 

[nic4us]

Relax. If there is a new merger, there will be a new negotiated TA that will replace the current TA (According to the APA in about 60 days). Don't sweat it the APA is real concerned about an old TA that is obsolete now. Cancel your membership dues and use the money to buy a few margaritas. Enjoy life and buy a little popcorn too.

P.S. Change your screen name because in a few months no one will know what the He!! nic means. Come to thank of it, I may have to change my screen name too in a couple years.

yummy...margaritas....but they go better with tortilla chips and salsa...I mean who eats popcorn with margaritas?

Change my screen name??? good Idea... how about this one.....4NIC8U......?????

Oh, and I believe you are right about the new TA. So, who would negotiate that TA? I am thinking it would be AMR, LCC, APA, and usapa. How many of those four are going to risk the hybrid DFR??

Crazy thing is AOL was at the table weeks before usapa...don't ya think???

 

[BoeingBoy]

Relax. If there is a new merger, there will be a new negotiated TA that will replace the current TA (According to the APA in about 60 days).

Don't know why y'all have so much trouble grasping facts that are staring you in the face. It's not a new transition agreement that will be negotiated in about 60 days, it a contract between the APA and US. That is what the APA has said, and there has been no mention of a transition agreement, new or not.

Jim

 

[OTTER574]

Parker/LCC/AOL/APA view of the usapa east.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPYxr6eiLho

 

[Metroyet]

Damn this is FUNNY!! I'd love to have seen Cleary's face when he figured out that Parker and the APA have been negotiating an industry leading contract WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A WHISPER to USAPA. Talk about a humiliating #### slap.

I can just see it now, Parker and the rest of the adults eat at the big table while Cleary, Mowery, Hummel, Bradford and the rest of the idiot brigade pout in the next room eating at the fold up card table!

"USAPA? What's a USAPA"?

 

[BLT]

Nice, Silver WILL sign! What happened to the crack Judge Wake when he tried? He got his britches take down by REAL judges. 😱 Face it kids, your seniority theft was overtaken by events after you took too long to figure out you need a CBA to implement seniority. Now you will never have a deal without a three way with APA. The Nic is absolutely done, done!

Seniority theft? Is that what you guys call final and binding arbitration now?

If it goes three way like you say. Where will you end up? East 737 capt $124, West 737 capt $142, American 737 capt $166+5%. Who will come out on top here? (Pssst. The answer is not DOH.) Prepare for seniority theft number 2.

Nic or no nic. You are not in an enviable position.

 

[nic4us]

Seniority theft? Is that what you guys call final and binding arbitration now?

If it goes three way like you say. Where will you end up? East 737 capt $124, West 737 capt $142, American 737 capt $166+5%. Who will come out on top here? (Pssst. The answer is not DOH.) Prepare for seniority theft number 2.

Nic or no nic. You are not in an enviable position.

Maybe he tired of calling it a "proposal" or "dispute" or whatever other misconception he was harboring about its finality and his non-existant ability to vote on it.

Give em a break, they are still trying to figure out why nobody is talking to them.

It won't go to a three way. That possibility went away the day the AWA operating certificate did. If the company would like to bring back the AWA op cert, and put 144 aircraft on it, and run the West pilot ranks back up to the pre-merger 1884, then we can talk about a three way.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Nearly 5 years ago the ALPA JNC had about 80 to 85 percent of a new joint contract negotiated. Scott Kirby joined the discussion, which signaled the beginning of the close out phase. Jack Stephan testified under oath that discussions were held with management to boost our pay to 7 to 10 percent above West rates, which would have provided East pilots a 21 to 24 percent pay raise about 5 years ago.

Not only did the East pilots lose a large pay raise, they lost higher DC Plan contributions, the best duty rigs in the country, and 31 days vacation per year that were already TA'ed.

And, there has been the time value of money loss too.

Furthermore, assuming US Airways' pilots enter into expedited arbitration with AA's pilots over the US-AA pilots seniority list, US Airways' pilots will have a contract with less positive economics than the AA pilots to present in our case. East pilots saw how this hurt them when they received Nicolau Award II.

It might be too late to negotiate a new deal with Doug Parker before the potential AA merger closes, but USAPA's actions have not only cost each pilot a lot money during the past 5 years, but could harm them in the AA merger too in their next seniority integration and once again with more time value loss of money.

I believe the time has come for USAPA to poll all of the pilots, members and non members alike, and ask two questions:

Would you accept the US Airways - APA Term Sheet that included the Nicolau Award or would you accept the US Airways - APA Term Sheet and Judge Silver's decision as our SLI integration?

The AA pilots have negotiated the industry leading passenger airline contract with Doug Parker in one week. Every US Airways union has negotiated a post merger contract or reached a TA with Doug since the merger, US Airways' Dispatchers have negotiated their 2nd post merger contract, and all 3 unions negotiated new contracts with Doug (I
believe this is 5 AA contracts - Pilots, F/A's, Mechanics, Agents, and Rampers).

That's 14 contracts negotiated by Doug with every union except USAPA. And, now USAPA's negotiations are "parked" by the NMB.

I believe it's now way past time for USAPA to represent all US Airways pilots equally: members, non members, East pilots, and West pilots by asking formally the two questions above.

Why? I believe the DAL contract plus 3 percent with a 7-year fence for the AA merger and then working for the largest premier airline in the world with career job security is the best it will ever get.

The narrowbody TOS Captain rate will be about $180/hour with 90 hour months flying will pay about $195,000 annual gross income with about a $21,000/year DC Plan contribution per year.

The narrowbody TOS F/0 rate will be about $120/hour with 90 hour months and will pay about $130,000 annual gross income or about $14,000/year DC Plan contribution with more days off per year.

I believe the majority of US Airways pilots would accept the Nicolau Award with the APA CLA agreement as their new contract. And, they would accept the Nicolau Award as our seniority list for the a McCaskill-Bond SLI with AA's pilots. In my opinion, the time has come to ask the questions above to see if my opinion is accurate.

 

[PullUp]

Maybe he tired of calling it a "proposal" or "dispute" or whatever other misconception he was harboring about its finality and his non-existant ability to vote on it.

Give em a break, they are still trying to figure out why nobody is talking to them.

It won't go to a three way. That possibility went away the day the AWA operating certificate did. If the company would like to bring back the AWA op cert, and put 144 aircraft on it, and run the West pilot ranks back up to the pre-merger 1884, then we can talk about a three way.

Ahem. The west, as a group, has legal standing and representation as a class. The group can be represented legally in this manner.
A three way is certainly a possibility, and Mr. Parker has actually floated that idea in public.
Cheers.