US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Ok east guys make your case. I have given many reasons why the APA, and the company will use the Nicolau list.

Make your case why would the American pilots and the company ignore an arbitrated list and subject themselves to litigation, cost themselves money and delay a new contract?

Keep in mind the AA pilots don't care about our fight. They don't care if it is an east or west pilot senior to them.

 

[Phoenix]

Read closer. The list can't be used until it is ratified. That has nothing to do with it being a legal and valid list.

Arbitration just does not go away. The Nicolau will be the list used for the next integration count on it.

You make perfect sense. An unratified list can't be used, but is legal to use. where's our preacher? Maybe he could help you out.

 

[mrbreeze]

Read closer. The list can't be used until it is ratified. That has nothing to do with it being a legal and valid list.

Arbitration just does not go away. The Nicolau will be the list used for the next integration count on it.

I think that Parker will let this whole mess ride for the next arbitrator to figure out. The next arbitrator will take into account the NIC along with the legal objection from the East pilots. Again, Parker did accept the NIC list, but by the time USAPA was put into place and offered the DOH list with C/R, Parker called a time out because of the legal storm on the horizon.

Unless Sliver rules before the possible merger, I think Parker will avoid any legal problems and any costs in trying to smooth things over....just letting a new arbitrator make the call.

Since the new law is going to be slotting, you may not be hurt that much except for being deluted more with the AA pilots.

I think that DOH and the NIC are gone with the merger. IMO

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Explain how the union is going to use an unratified list.

Easy.

 

[Phoenix]

Ok east guys make your case. I have given many reasons why the APA, and the company will use the Nicolau list.

Make your case why would the American pilots and the company ignore an arbitrated list and subject themselves to litigation, cost themselves money and delay a new contract?

Keep in mind the AA pilots don't care about our fight. They don't care if it is an east or west pilot senior to them.

You are correct the APA doesn't care and they have no liability.

Who is the legal representative of the pilot members of USAPA and what ratified seniority list(s) do they and the company presently enforce, and by what legal means do each presently enforce such list(s). And how many injunctions would be put in place if anyone attempted to have a permanent equipment bid according to any list(s) other than the ones they presently enforce? You want injunctions... Try to impose a list(s) that isn't ratified (DOH, NIC, or otherwise.)

 

[Move2CLT]

I think that Parker will let this whole mess ride for the next arbitrator to figure out. The next arbitrator will take into account the NIC along with the legal objection from the East pilots. Again, Parker did accept the NIC list, but by the time USAPA was put into place and offered the DOH list with C/R, Parker called a time out because of the legal storm on the horizon.

Unless Sliver rules before the possible merger, I think Parker will avoid any legal problems and any costs in trying to smooth things over....just letting a new arbitrator make the call.

Since the new law is going to be slotting, you may not be hurt that much except for being deluted more with the AA pilots.

I think that DOH and the NIC are gone with the merger. IMO

breeze

Nic is not gone. It's alive and well. It's in Doug's possession and it's the only list that represents both pilot groups. It is the product of our TA and I guarantee you it will be used as the basis of our SLI with APAs list.

IMHO.

And it's "diluted".

 

[Move2CLT]

All I said that I was hired several years before AWA was formed, you have a problem with that.

Where were you on your list when the merger with us was announced?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Nic is not gone. It's alive and well. It's in Doug's possession and it's the only list that represents both pilot groups. It is the product of our TA and I guarantee you it will be used as the basis of our SLI with APAs list.

IMHO.

And it's "diluted".

True enough! I think the negotiator you'll become most aquainted with should a merger take place is named "Ben Dover"

 

[Beancounter]

I think that Parker will let this whole mess ride for the next arbitrator to figure out. The next arbitrator will take into account the NIC along with the legal objection from the East pilots. Again, Parker did accept the NIC list, but by the time USAPA was put into place and offered the DOH list with C/R, Parker called a time out because of the legal storm on the horizon.

Unless Sliver rules before the possible merger, I think Parker will avoid any legal problems and any costs in trying to smooth things over....just letting a new arbitrator make the call.

Since the new law is going to be slotting, you may not be hurt that much except for being deluted more with the AA pilots.

I think that DOH and the NIC are gone with the merger. IMO

breeze

Breeze,

Let's say that scenario plays out. You have a much better pulse on the east obviously than I do. If loosing the NIC means losing DOH and going to arbitration are the east pilots going to call for a jihad? They will be losing USAPA and majority control, but gaining a real union.

Bean

 

[mrbreeze]

It is the product of our TA and I guarantee you it will be used as the basis of our SLI with APAs list.

IMHO.

And it's "diluted".

It is a small part of our unfinished TA, along with the legal objections from the East.

The bottom line is that Parker is gonna pass the buck to the next arbitrator.....that's his out in this phase of the game. He couldn't care less about how the SLI goes as long as he has his legal out.

breeze

 

[Beancounter]

True enough! I think the negotiator you'll become most aquainted with should a merger take place is named "Ben Dover"

Isn't that the same guy that did Alaska's contract arbitration? 🙁

 

[Phoenix]

True enough! I think the negotiator you'll become most aquainted with should a merger take place is named "Ben Dover"

Doug does not participate in arbitration of seniority lists of unions, neither does he provide a certified copy (like Xerox with a signature) of ratified lists to arbitrators.

 

[mrbreeze]

Breeze,

Let's say that scenario plays out. You have a much better pulse on the east obviously than I do. If loosing the NIC means losing DOH and going to arbitration are the east pilots going to call for a jihad? They will be losing USAPA and majority control, but gaining a real union.

Bean

Hi Bean,

The NIC has such a lightning rod attached to it.....I think emotions are high against it. If the NIC and DOH are gone with the new SLI and the prospects of an industry styled contract, IMO, it will pass. With the NIC included, well that's a different picture in the eyes of the East pilots, I don't know on that one....it would go to the arbritator for sure.

breeze

 

[Phoenix]

It is a small part of our unfinished TA, along with the legal objections from the East.

The bottom line is that Parker is gonna pass the buck to the next arbitrator.....that's his out in this phase of the game. He couldn't care less about how the SLI goes as long as he has his legal out.

breeze

And USAPA has its legal out (from both sides). If a list isn't ratified they have no authority to use it.

 

[mrbreeze]

And USAPA has its legal out (from both sides). If a list isn't ratified they have no authority to use it.

exactly!