US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767one]

Isn't that how it always ends with you guys?

And yes, I have cancelled my DCO.

So are you sending your dues by mail? Or will you be the first pilot to help the company out with overstaffing by getting terminated?

 

[767one]

I have emailed both Dean and Paul asking them when we could see the plans. Neither has responded yet. Do you now if it's protected by a confidentiality agreement?

You have not asked the right person. You need to ask Chip.

 

[A320 Driver]

I enjoy a good story, when I talk to labor attorneys about this whole USAPA thing and point them to the whole story, they are typically flabbergasted by the supreme arrogance and utter stupidity of USAPA.

I love watching the entitlement east continue to fight for their own greedy self interest, in flagrant denial of the facts and their binding arbitration. And, its worth it to laugh my ass off at you when you lose, which is often and predictable.

Its also a hell of a lot cheaper than going to graduate school.

Entitlement East?
Hmmmm... lets see how APA and 1600+ furloughed American pilots like the NIC footprint of being stapled to the bottom with no credit whatsoever to their length of service.

1600...that is 200 short of the total number of West pilots and nearly 400 more than the number of West pilots that voted in the USAPA presidential election.

This will get interesting and that is for sure!

Driver...

 

[fatherabraham]

Entitlement East?
Hmmmm... lets see how APA and 1600+ furloughed American pilots like the NIC footprint of being stapled to the bottom with no credit whatsoever to their length of service.

1600...that is 200 short of the total number of West pilots and nearly 400 more than the number of West pilots that voted in the USAPA presidential election.

This will get interesting and that is for sure!

Driver...

A320

Notice the many similarities in a potential AA/LCC SLi as where in AAA/AWA.
I dare any westies to rationalize same Nic type sli with AA.
Thus far they are restraining their chutzpah with silence. Good for them.

FA

 

[john john]

Relative seniority.

Now or 2006

 

[traderjake]

Who cares about the McCaskil-Bond law.. APA can do what ever they please.

Who cares about binding arbitration. USAPA can do what ever they please.

 

[EastCheats]

It's already there. My initials are LD. Call up a Leonidas principle and ask. It wasn't one check, but a series over the last couple years, and one pay pal.

I'm serious, call.

EB has the list with the rings.

The LD I know I have a lot of respect. He was a Cactus 18er and is a lot more forgiving than I would be considering his situation. I also know he is a top contributor to Leonidas.

I know that PiBrat wanted the Cactus 18 lawsuit dropped. I doubt it was an act of kindness, rather a realization of a failed strategy.

I'll take your word that this is in fact LD. Sorry I did not get the joke earlier, I know you have that dry sense of humor.

Peace

 

[EastUS1]

FA I am coming from 7 years of stagnation. 7 years of money lost that I will never see recouped. 7 years that might have seen a second contract. That is where I'm coming from. And you don't need to know anything more about me beyond that.

"And you don't need to know anything more about me beyond that." You know?...That's actually very true....I DON'T need to know anything more about (I)/YOU, as NOTHING you mention shows even the tiniest concern for your junior, long time coworkers who would have their remaining time spent stapled below most or even all west people. Let's see: "I am..."...."7 years of money lost that I will never see...."....."where I'm coming from."

 

[EastUS1]

I know that PiBrat wanted the Cactus 18 lawsuit dropped. I doubt it was an act of kindness, rather a realization of a failed strategy.

He wasn't alone in that. Once the "message" had been sent and the "cute" clogging of phone lines and the mail, umm.. "behavior" ceased, continuing with the process amounted to needless "overkill". That some targeted shouldn't have been seemed likely as well. Please afford all the courtesy of not insulting anyone's intelligence by at all pretending that said clogging/behavior didn't happen though....

 

[Piedmont1984]

"And you don't need to know anything more about me beyond that." You know?...That's actually very true....I DON'T need to know anything more about (I)/YOU, as NOTHING you mention shows even the tiniest concern for your junior, long time coworkers who would have their remaining time spent stapled below most or even all west people. Let's see: "I am..."...."7 years of money lost that I will never see...."....."where I'm coming from."

I think that many, if not most of my junior, long time coworkers would prefer a decent contract and job security rather than bragging rights on what will be a diluted seniority list, even if it is a Nic list going into this merger. They have had enough of this.

Time to look at the big picture. What will you and I leave as a legacy to our less junior coworkers, a brighter future, or a scarred battllefield littered with 'spent cartridges" and slogans like 'we died with our boots on'?

 

[EastUS1]

Likewise for being a USAPAphile.

I really miss my ALPA magazine, it made those secret and dangerous over water missions so much more....satisfying.

"...secret and dangerous over water missions.." Hmmm...Have you been spending more time at the movies with "LT Hardy" lately?

 

[Metroyet]

I agree with the CCC Update above.

No Crap. It all seems pretty obvious to me. USAPA is completely irrelevant and ignored. Perhaps those USA Today ads filled with lies was a bad idea? Here's what the CCC contingent still doesn't understand. The fence in PHX can never be mended by anybody from USAPA. Bradford? Seriously? Right. Good Luck.

The West is going to probably do two final things before USAPA is thrown onto the compost pile, 1. stop paying dues all together and 2. file a lawsuit over the overturning of the Appeals Board elections.

Drive down revenue, drive up costs... and the worst possible time. Everybody knows APA is going to deliver a contract USAPA can only dream of and the seniority issue is obviously going to go to Binding Arb. as mandated by law. There is no down side to the West to choke out their own "union" at this point and there's no shortage of enthusiasm to do so.

Watch the West take a seat on the APA side of the table from the very first available opportunity to do so. I think this merger is probably in the bag. It's going to happen at some point even if AMR pulls out of this on their own...which is doubtful. Doug can have his merger if he can find enough cash. If history has proven him capable of anything, it's getting money.

 

[EastUS1]

I think that many, if not most of my junior, long time coworkers would prefer a decent contract and job security rather than bragging rights on what will be a diluted seniority list, even if it is a Nic list going into this merger. They have had enough of this.

Time to look at the big picture. What will you and I leave as a legacy to our less junior coworkers, a brighter future, or a scarred battllefield littered with 'spent cartridges" and slogans like 'we died with our boots on'?

1) If that's indeed the case (which greatly differs from the feedback I hear from those junior), I expect that enough will make their wishes heard. I've no interest in any "bragging rights". It's a matter of personal principle for me...but that's backed by merely my own single vote, which amounts to precious little in the scheme of things.

2) Would we truly be affording any of them any actual security by dropping all, or almost all of the west folks on top of them? I'm assuming that your thoughts here contain the likely merger as well. I've little faith in that "security", since the APA people are the ONLY ones who've been "promised" a furlough-free situation. Perhaps we'd instead, just be finalizing their possible use as furlough-fodder.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Metro

My comment about the bigger picture applies to your side as well. Why don't we wait to hear what Judge Silver rules. If she rules that the east is bound to the Nic - and given recent merger developments, I will then urge my reps to accept the Nic, decline to pursue any appeal and move forward as a unified pilot group, albeit a fragile one, to deal with the APA.

What are you willing to do?

 

[Piedmont1984]

1) If that's indeed the case (which greatly differs from the feedback I hear from those junior), I expect that enough will make their wishes heard. I've no interest in any "bragging rights". It's a matter of personal principle for me...but that's backed by merely my own single vote, which amounts to precious little in the scheme of things.

2) Would we truly be affording any of them any actual security by dropping all, or almost all of the west folks on top of them? I'm assuming that your thoughts here contain the likely merger as well. I've little faith in that "security", since the APA people are the ONLY ones who've been "promised" a furlough-free situation. Perhaps we'd instead, just be finalizing their possible use as furlough-fodder.

Agreed. Hummel campaigned on the promise to utilize "frequent and heavy polling" of the rank and file. Let's hope he keeps his promise and asks the pilots how they wish to proceed.