US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

N924PS,

When are you coming over to the big iron? We all would love to fly with you. It has been almost 20 years since we shared the cockpit.

Hate

hmmm...as Arte Johnson would say,,"very interesting"...lets just say, how come you can't wait to fly with me Hate?

1. AOL mailing, man did that strike a nerve. usapa has published a rebuttal full of rationalizations as to why it is okay to steal West jobs. I had to force myself to read the entire whiner's epic (note to Theur..try to limit your lies to 1000 words or less). Kind of funny how many adjectives the author came up with for the mailing, none of which are actually truthful, but funny how the desperation becomes so evident.

Got a little advice for usapa in response to their rebuttal of the AOL mailing. Quit fooling yourself, you are incapable of getting a contract for this pilot group. usapa is nothing more than a foolish attempt, spurred on by a cunning union busting lawyer, at circumventing binding arbitration in an attempt to steal something of which it has no legal right, namely the West pilots status and position. It ain't going to work, you are dead in the water, no matter how often you lie to yourself.

2. AOL lawyers. I think we will keep them. But this talk of new lawyers might be a reaction to the issue that it is becoming aparent that the West may have to sue usapa in another DFR. Seems that the grievence board is intentionally inflicting harm against the West. The West won the min block hour grievence months ago, yet there has yet to be a payout to the effected pilots. Also, the board dropped the West LTD grievence, in what seems to be some sort of payback over the seniority fight. Further, there is a huge laundry list of unpersued West grievences. Did the NMB forget to tell usapa that in exchange for their fools errand of trying to steal the West's seniority, they would have to actually have to at least pretend to represent the West pilots?

3. Call me crazy, but I think that safety survey is another usapa attempt at being bad union pilots. I mean, Hate wants to fly with me, so why can't we all just get along?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Fair enough. Please post the arbitration ruling denying the claim and thus your contention:

Like you, I'm waiting for the arbitrator's ruling on this for the definitive answer. However, my statement is based on the theorem that past performance is the best predictor of future results. How long has the east been on LOA93 rates? Until there is a JCBA, the best predictor of east pay rates is LOA93. You may not like it but that, along with Management’s contention that the snap backs have virtually no chance of happening, is my rationale. What rationale does an east pilot have for claiming pay restoration in 2011?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Like you, I'm waiting for the arbitrator's ruling on this for the definitive answer. However, my statement is based on the theorem that past performance is the best predictor of future results. How long has the east been on LOA93 rates? Until there is a JCBA, the best predictor of east pay rates is LOA93. You may not like it but that, along with Management’s contention that the snap backs have virtually no chance of happening, is my rationale. What rationale does an east pilot have for claiming pay restoration in 2011?

Actually we luv "your rational" looks like pay restoration according to your track record WILL happen! Like morality that is only a "belief" about what eveyone should do (USAPA sinners you) your picture of predictions is let's say 180 degrees! MM! Donations a plenty nothing to show, now about that card!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

hmmm...as Arte Johnson would say,,"very interesting"...lets just say, how come you can't wait to fly with me Hate?

1. AOL mailing, man did that strike a nerve. usapa has published a rebuttal full of rationalizations as to why it is okay to steal West jobs. I had to force myself to read the entire whiner's epic (note to Theur..try to limit your lies to 1000 words or less). Kind of funny how many adjectives the author came up with for the mailing, none of which are actually truthful, but funny how the desperation becomes so evident.

Got a little advice for usapa in response to their rebuttal of the AOL mailing. Quit fooling yourself, you are incapable of getting a contract for this pilot group. usapa is nothing more than a foolish attempt, spurred on by a cunning union busting lawyer, at circumventing binding arbitration in an attempt to steal something of which it has no legal right, namely the West pilots status and position. It ain't going to work, you are dead in the water, no matter how often you lie to yourself.

2. AOL lawyers. I think we will keep them. But this talk of new lawyers might be a reaction to the issue that it is becoming aparent that the West may have to sue usapa in another DFR. Seems that the grievence board is intentionally inflicting harm against the West. The West won the min block hour grievence months ago, yet there has yet to be a payout to the effected pilots. Also, the board dropped the West LTD grievence, in what seems to be some sort of payback over the seniority fight. Further, there is a huge laundry list of unpersued West grievences. Did the NMB forget to tell usapa that in exchange for their fools errand of trying to steal the West's seniority, they would have to actually have to at least pretend to represent the West pilots?

3. Call me crazy, but I think that safety survey is another usapa attempt at being bad union pilots. I mean, Hate wants to fly with me, so why can't we all just get along?

We will keep it to 2 words " card drive" see wasn't that easy ! MM!

 

[Heretic]

3. Call me crazy, but

Ok.

You're crazy. T-shirt proves it.

-Mods. He told me to do it.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Actually we luv "your rational" looks like pay restoration according to your track record WILL happen! Like morality that is only a "belief" about what eveyone should do (USAPA sinners you) your picture of predictions is let's say 180 degrees! MM! Donations a plenty nothing to show, now about that card!

I can only guess at what you were trying to communicate in this, but it seems that your basis for believing pay restoration will happen is because of me. So you think that whatever CallawayGolf claims on a message board means the exact opposite will occur? An excellent strategy if I do say so myself - oh wait, does that mean it's not a good strategy at all now?

 

[nic4us]

Ok.

You're crazy. T-shirt proves it.

-Mods. He told me to do it.

Now that was funny!! one + for you!!

I will see what I can do about getting a better t-shirt slogan for the usapa leaders. How about?

All of us are born crying, usapians haven't stopped yet!

or

read the fine print, final and binding.

 

[Metroyet]

I must have missed it. Do you westies have the ballot cards out that you've been threatening for, lo, over two years now?

(Didn't think so.)

Why replace the fake union when the legal fight rages on? There's a very good reason the card drive is on ice. Cleary and $e$ham do more harm to USAPA and the East pilots themselves than AOL ever could. Honestly, you've got the two most arrogant, criminally incompetent dolts fueled by nothing but hatred and narcissism. They're an easy kill. My guess is AOL counsels those wanting to start a card drive on the benefits of keeping the inmates in charge of the asylum for now...hence, no drive.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Like you, I'm waiting for the arbitrator's ruling on this for the definitive answer. However, my statement is based on the theorem that past performance is the best predictor of future results. How long has the east been on LOA93 rates? Until there is a JCBA, the best predictor of east pay rates is LOA93. You may not like it but that, along with Management’s contention that the snap backs have virtually no chance of happening, is my rationale. What rationale does an east pilot have for claiming pay restoration in 2011?

Actually, the restoration would be January 1, 2010. Not 2011. The rationale? LOA 93 explicitly states an expiration of the bankruptcy pay rates on December 31, 2009. It's the ONLY part of the LOA that has an expiration date attached to it. Why would that date have been placed specifically for pay rates (and left out of any other section of the LOA?)

Management's contention? What else would you expect them to say? "We are happy to restore the pay of the east pilots to their pre-bankruptcy rates at the expiration of the LOA 93 pay rate section." Isn't that the same management that lost nearly half a billion on bad bets and fuel hedges? That's the management whose conjecture (and it is nothing more than that) you use as a basis for your assertion?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Why replace the fake union when the legal fight rages on? There's a very good reason the card drive is on ice. Cleary and $e$ham do more harm to USAPA and the East pilots themselves than AOL ever could. Honestly, you've got the two most arrogant, criminally incompetent dolts fueled by nothing but hatred and narcissism. They're an easy kill. My guess is AOL counsels those wanting to start a card drive on the benefits of keeping the inmates in charge of the asylum for now...hence, no drive.

Getting a bit shrill, aren't we?

Of course, name-calling will solve your legal problems and pay the bills.



USAPA - Best dues money I've ever spent.

 

[RSVP767]

I didn't say ripeness was the only basis for the appeal, but it certainly got the bulk of $eham's time and attention. So I will agree with you on that point.

How about if you answer why USAPA and $eham made their case about ripeness rather than pursuing the weightier matter of the merits of the DFR case or the procedures Wake used in his courtroom? This was the golden opportunity and it would saved millions in future litigation and put the JCBA on the fastest track possible. Did ripeness take center stage because Cleary/$eham knew that this was their best chance to get a cheap victory in comparison to actually having the courts address the merits of the DFR claim?

To put it simply.....Cart before the horse. You can't move on to question B (Merit/Procedure) until satisfying question A (Ripeness). I think Seham and team were pretty confident that we would never get to question B. I'm no lawyer by any stretch of the imagination but I would think Ripeness took center stage because that was the first step in the process....i.e.; should Wake have even heard this case.

And I thought you were one to 'stick to/play by' the rules.....you know, integrity, morality and all???


Now, why do you think the 9th ruled as they did? And Judge Silver will rule the same. NOT RIPE!

Because the union is not yet done negotiating and the process is not complete.

When USAPA became the new bargaining agent, all sections of the yet to be completed JCBA were reviewed. Many sections, whether complete or not, were found to be lacking. The previously completed 'final and binding' proposal of the prior bargaining agent conscerning Section 22 was also found to be lacking. USAPA continues to bargain in negotiations with the company for a fair and equitable agreement in an effort to represent all US Airways pilots fairly. It is their right and their duty. When we are done, and the process is complete, if anyone (East or West) is unhappy with the result, and feel they were not FAIRLY represented, they will then be free to persue their claim in the courts. Not before then. Some ask why USAPA has opposed the companies motion for DJ and is asking for dismissal. The reason is to move the process along more quickly and efficiently. It will be far faster to get to a completed JCBA if the courts step aside (as they should) rather than go through all the processes and expense of a trial just to end up in the same place....NOT RIPE!

 

[Phoenix]

Now that was funny!! one + for you!!

I will see what I can do about getting a better t-shirt slogan for the usapa leaders. How about?

All of us are born crying, usapians haven't stopped yet!

or

read the fine print, final and binding.

Internal union process

Make yourself binding promises while you are arguing with yourself.. and feel free to change your mind until you decide. Its like a tortuous argument with one's self about what to eat... "I promised myself, now and forever to only eat healthfully ... ah, which crew meal to have.. Shall I have the baked chicken or the medium rare steak?"

You can change your mind until you chew... "Binding mastication."

 

[767jetz]

Their work release program commenced at 12:01AM today. But they are still required to wear their ankle bracelets.

Yeah. It took less than a day, and 10 pages for the clowns to turn this place into a circus again. Yipeee!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yeah. It took less than a day, and 10 pages for the clowns to turn this place into a circus again. Yipeee!

How's that joint negotiating thing goin, the Baron thinks not! This certainly is a circus but were midgets compared to CAL/UAL! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

hows the 76, What is really hillarious is to look at the CAL/UAL web no comments nada talk about sitting in a corner ! JETZ U ROCK! MM! Correction were a "SIDESHOW" UAL/CAL will be a circus.