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Internal union process

Make yourself binding promises while you are arguing with yourself.. and feel free to change your mind until you decide. Its like a tortuous argument with one's self about what to eat... "I promised myself, now and forever to only eat healthfully ... ah, which crew meal to have.. Shall I have the baked chicken or the medium rare steak?"

You can change your mind until you chew... "Binding mastication." :lol:

You crack me up PHX, BTW they say you can do it til you need glasses...
 
To put it simply.....

When USAPA became the new bargaining agent, all sections of the yet to be completed JCBA were reviewed. Many sections, whether complete or not, were found to be lacking. The previously completed 'final and binding' proposal of the prior bargaining agent conscerning Section 22 was also found to be lacking. USAPA continues to bargain in negotiations with the company for a fair and equitable agreement in an effort to represent all US Airways pilots fairly. It is their right and their duty. When we are done, and the process is complete, if anyone (East or West) is unhappy with the result, and feel they were not FAIRLY represented, they will then be free to persue their claim in the courts. Not before then. Some ask why USAPA has opposed the companies motion for DJ and is asking for dismissal. The reason is to move the process along more quickly and efficiently. It will be far faster to get to a completed JCBA if the courts step aside (as they should) rather than go through all the processes and expense of a trial just to end up in the same place....NOT RIPE!

What is simple about that?

We all understand your thought process here, but there are two huge technicalities you are overlooking. First, what good is a completed illegal CBA, that is unusable and barred by injunction? Two, the company will not touch DOH (and open themselves to ripe litigation, that they barely escaped before), until a court tells them they can,(which likely will not happen).

usapa is opposed to the company's DJ suit because they fear that it is going to tell them what every lawyer to date except Seham has told them. The Nic is it. You are free to negotiate whatever you want, but seniority, as a precurser condition to the merger, has already been established. Rearrange it to favor the east at the West's expense, it just ain't gonna happen. No one is willing to abet usapa in their illegal quest. So no contract until the company"s DJ action is finished, and then no contract without the Nic.

But, while we are talking contract. In their rebuttal to the AOL mailing, usapa acknowledged exactly which sections were complete, and which were open, when the east left the negotiating table, including section 22. What do they say about it? Section 22 "closed", and they note it is prior to the Nic. Section 22 is governed by the TA, and therefore closed to negotiations.
oops....looks like Theur didn't catch that little tidbit in his prerelease censorship.

Anyway, still the same bottom line. usapa is not free to negotiate section 22, they have no one with which to negotiate, until the company gets the answere that usapa is trying desperately to avoid.

BTW, after the 9th ruled, I had to wait 3 days to post on this board. I then just posted I would wait another day or so to debunk all the hype the east posters were reading into the opinion. So, here we are, a substantial amount of time since the 9th ruled, and what has usapa gotten. Big, nada, nothing, zilch, zip, zero. usapa is no closer to closing a contract than they were the day they were elected. As a matter of fact and their own now published admission, they are further away, and quite a bit so, than we were the day the east had their Nic meltdown. usapa is simply incapable of delivering a CBA for this group. Much less a DOH contract that would get them sued.

So, what the east pilots are going to have to ask themselves is just as AOL asked, "Can you afford to retire under LOA 93?"
 
I think your information is flawed.

AirCal went with AA in 1987. Reno Air didn't start flying until 1992.

I'm not certain of the method that was used but AirCal pilots were integrated on the AA seniority list.

Was your brother in the Bay area a supporter of the recently defeated Caifornia Propsition 19?
?
 
What is simple about that?

We all understand your thought process here, but there are two huge technicalities you are overlooking. First, what good is a completed illegal CBA, that is unusable and barred by injunction? Two, the company will not touch DOH (and open themselves to ripe litigation, that they barely escaped before), until a court tells them they can,(which likely will not happen).

usapa is opposed to the company's DJ suit because they fear that it is going to tell them what every lawyer to date except Seham has told them. The Nic is it. You are free to negotiate whatever you want, but seniority, as a precurser condition to the merger, has already been established. Rearrange it to favor the east at the West's expense, it just ain't gonna happen. No one is willing to abet usapa in their illegal quest. So no contract until the company"s DJ action is finished, and then no contract without the Nic.

But, while we are talking contract. In their rebuttal to the AOL mailing, usapa acknowledged exactly which sections were complete, and which were open, when the east left the negotiating table, including section 22. What do they say about it? Section 22 "closed", and they note it is prior to the Nic. Section 22 is governed by the TA, and therefore closed to negotiations.
oops....looks like Theur didn't catch that little tidbit in his prerelease censorship.

Anyway, still the same bottom line. usapa is not free to negotiate section 22, they have no one with which to negotiate, until the company gets the answere that usapa is trying desperately to avoid.

BTW, after the 9th ruled, I had to wait 3 days to post on this board. I then just posted I would wait another day or so to debunk all the hype the east posters were reading into the opinion. So, here we are, a substantial amount of time since the 9th ruled, and what has usapa gotten. Big, nada, nothing, zilch, zip, zero. usapa is no closer to closing a contract than they were the day they were elected. As a matter of fact and their own now published admission, they are further away, and quite a bit so, than we were the day the east had their Nic meltdown. usapa is simply incapable of delivering a CBA for this group. Much less a DOH contract that would get them sued.

So, what the east pilots are going to have to ask themselves is just as AOL asked, "Can you afford to retire under LOA 93?"
C'mon 3days really, answer to your question "YES" . MM! Actually you told us we were lucky to have jobs, so be it LOA 93 desert! Your playing with a group that has nothing to lose, your strategy might need some refining! 3 days really ?
 
[quote name='nic4us' timestamp='1289339106' post='767459'
3. Call me crazy, but I think that safety survey is another usapa attempt at being bad union pilots. I mean, Hate wants to fly with me, so why can't we all just get along?
[/quote]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that perceived "labor" issues in a saftey survey.

I wonder if the intent of the survey was genuinely motivated by safety, or just looking for more ammunition to fire when the DFRII goes to trial.

"We can't fly with these guys, it's simply UNSAFE, and we have a survey to prove it!"
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one that perceived "labor" issues in a saftey survey.

I wonder if the intent of the survey was genuinely motivated by safety, or just looking for more ammunition to fire when the DFRII goes to trial.

"We can't fly with these guys, it's simply UNSAFE, and we have a survey to prove it!"

I saw the survey. It's a ham-handed amateurish rag at best. USAPA is an embarrassment to the profession. The Ulterior motives driving this stupid exercise are loud and clear. Fortunately, All West pilots are on the same page. I think it's fair to say that USAPA is going to be sorely disappointed in the West's responses. Of course, they're just going to skew whatever the real results are to jive with their intentions. It's the USAPA way....create a goal, then twist, contort, and lie your way into shoe horning an alternate reality into the mix.
 
924

Read no.458
It appears, from 2 posts, that the AirCal pilots merged with the AA pilots. I had said by DOH which is what the source I checked said) but according to supercruiser it was DOH to/through 1984 hires then a ratio for hires after that. Anyway, the AirCal pilots apparently weren't stapled to the bottom of AA's list as your brother claims.

Jim
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one that perceived "labor" issues in a saftey survey.

I wonder if the intent of the survey was genuinely motivated by safety, or just looking for more ammunition to fire when the DFRII goes to trial.

"We can't fly with these guys, it's simply UNSAFE, and we have a survey to prove it!"
It was a SAFETY SURVEY, you know there were NEUTRAL NO ANSWER, options I expected more especially out of, well no wonder , I luv MYR! MM! your credit score is golly good! MM!Walks like a duck.
 
It was a SAFETY SURVEY, you know there were NEUTRAL NO ANSWER, options I expected more especially out of, well no wonder , I luv MYR! MM! your credit score is golly good! MM!Walks like a duck.

I took the survey. It appeared to me the survey was looking for more than just answers to safety questions.

Alliteration can be cured, you simply need to find the right health care professional. I hope you do.
 
I took the survey. It appeared to me the survey was looking for more than just answers to safety questions.

Alliteration can be cured, you simply need to find the right health care professional. I hope you do.
Get new glasses , It was about SAFETY, I am sure at your age if you called USAPA they could have explained the answers to you, the nic allows senior pilots to bid PHX UNRESTRICTED, I don't recall that applies to you but heck I get stuff wrong all the time! But your Alliteration is reall getting old!MM Hows that GLENN BECK book goin!
 
How's that joint negotiating thing goin,
Rather well thank you very much. The Company is taking large strides in giving us what we want at the table. The skirmish you've been hearing about is in regard to pay banding of the 777 and 747. (Real big airplanes, for you little regional type folk) Yes there was some interesting banter back and forth from the MEC's last week, but rest assured it is being handled. Unlike you guys, we don't negotiate in public, nor do we buy into the web-board hysterics. We get our info from the source. Not rumors from "my college roommate." What ever happens, it will be settled as per ALPA merger policy, and we'll all move on, with an industry leading contract by the way, and stand by our commitments. Doesn't really matter who's happy with it or not. It's irrelevant. Binding is binding.

Another little tid-bit... I haven't seen the pay rates yet, but I did hear they are "well north" of Delta's. Enjoy your LOA 93 rates 'till retirement. :lol:

You guys really have a history of cutting off your nose in spite of your face. When UA is done merging, you'll be lucky to still be in STAR. I've heard some very interesting plans for UA's future, with CO management at the helm. You have absolutely no idea what's coming. But enjoy your little temper tantrum over DOH. 😛 It must burn your butt that you STILL haven't been able to resurrect your career by stealing someone else's seniority. Lord knows you've been trying for almost a decade.
 
I just read the new rules and I think it is time for me to depart, at least on a day-to-day basis. I may come post something if actual court hearings or a trial occurs, but absent that I think it is time to leave.

My final wish is that you folks somehow learn to respect one another even if you disagree on issues.

Goodbye for now.
 
I just read the new rules and I think it is time for me to depart, at least on a day-to-day basis. I may come post something if actual court hearings or a trial occurs, but absent that I think it is time to leave.

My final wish is that you folks somehow learn to respect one another even if you disagree on issues.

Goodbye for now.
Please do come back when there is some actual news from the courts. Your interpretations are appreciated. I too looked at the new rules and had to scratch my head. I guess drama and three ring circus are good for business. This place is becoming a urinal where the bitter and angry lynch mob come to vent their frustrations. It's quite entertaining, but makes it hard to have an actual conversation.

Right now it's the same old talking points of the propaganda machine, regurgitated over and over. (With the obligatory jabs and personal attacks to anyone not holding the line.) Maybe when the DJ is final there will be something to discuss once again. I predict another nuclear meltdown, and a card drive once the LOA 93 pay restoration fails, with USAPA and the east's DOH wet dream relegated to the history books as a colossal failure. (Just my opinion, of course. 😀 )
 
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