US Pilots Labor Discussion

[N924PS]

Wow! Looks like the lynch mob is back from purgatory. I count about 5 names who have been mysteriously absent for quite some time. This should be entertaining...

Buckle your seat belts. B)

Their work release program commenced at 12:01AM today. But they are still required to wear their ankle bracelets.

 

[Hate2fly]

Their work release program commenced at 12:01AM today. But they are still required to wear their ankle bracelets.

N924PS,

When are you coming over to the big iron? We all would love to fly with you. It has been almost 20 years since we shared the cockpit.

Hate

 

[CallawayGolf]

Cal we agree! I had the same same exact thoughts only in your statement I swapped the words USAPA for AOL, and vice versa, in fact I tossed it till there was something, well anyway. Scratch Golf anyone? MM!

How many mulligans and foot wedges will the east followers give USAPA before they are tired of getting nothing in return for all of their mistakes and undeliverable promises? No need to respond, I’m sure we all know the answer already.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

How many mulligans and foot wedges will the east followers give USAPA before they are tired of getting nothing in return for all of their mistakes and undeliverable promises? No need to respond, I’m sure we all know the answer already.

Our Scorecard right now is pretty good! Ripe , Unripe got that one right ! Man Big, big , mulligan for AOL! Speaking of Cards were still waiting, all this chest pounding , put out the cards heck better than any Wilson Polll BTW NNTRespond , Good Luck and lots of it! MM!

 

[luvn737s]

Hate,

What false statements were included in the mailer that got everyone so upset, as you claim? Or do east pilots just prefer not to see or hear the truth?

You suppose Cleary doesn't like to be held to account for his failures? Then he won't like the representation election one bit!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Our Scorecard right now is pretty good! Ripe , Unripe got that one right ! Man Big, big , mulligan for AOL! Speaking of Cards were still waiting, all this chest pounding , put out the cards heck better than any Wilson Polll BTW NNTRespond , Good Luck and lots of it! MM!

Except that getting ripeness “right” according to the 9th hasn’t done anything to move the process along towards getting a better contract. It also didn’t do anything to ensure that USAPA’s DOH proposal would be accepted by Management. Think about it this way – if $eham and Cleary were so convinced that they have the correct interpretation of the laws and facts, then why would they have appealed to the 9th on the grounds that the case wasn’t ripe? They had a golden opportunity to let the judges at the 9th look at the merits of the DFR case and presumably put this whole issue to rest by now. Instead they played the ripeness card and accomplished precious little for any of the pilots at US.

So if they and the east faithful were fully confident that they were correct, then who cares about ripeness? They should have let the merits be evaluated on appeal and if there was any real “spanking” to be handed down – it would have come in the form of the 9th ordering the dismissal of the DFR charges, not lack of jurisdictional ripeness. If $eham had won the DFR appeal, Management may have capitulated on the NIC and then USAPA could have gotten down to the real brass tacks of negotiating a JCBA. It is very telling that $eham rolled the dice with most of his time before the 9th arguing on ripeness rather than confidently laying out his case for why abandoning binding arbitration was both justified and lawful given USAPA’s DFR responsibilities. So what you call a “win” I see as nothing but a minor delay in the process of justice being served.

In sum, why fight ripeness when you are so convinced that a DFR and the subsequent damages will never happen if/when the conditions for unquestionable ripeness ever do occur?

 

[supercruiser]

A nice tale but doesn't fit wit reality. AirCal was acquired by AA in 1987 and the pilots were integrated via DOH. AA didn't acquiire Reno till 1999. Are you sure your brother didn't make the whole thing up?

Jim

AirCal pilots pre-1984 were integrated doh, but 1984(when AA began a large hiring due to B scale arriving) and later AirCal pilots were slotted approx 12AA:1AirCal.

 

[LSS]

Except that getting ripeness “right” according to the 9th hasn’t done anything to move the process along towards getting a better contract. It also didn’t do anything to ensure that USAPA’s DOH proposal would be accepted by Management. Think about it this way – if $eham and Cleary were so convinced that they have the correct interpretation of the laws and facts, then why would they have appealed to the 9th on the grounds that the case wasn’t ripe? They had a golden opportunity to let the judges at the 9th look at the merits of the DFR case and presumably put this whole issue to rest by now. Instead they played the ripeness card and accomplished precious little for any of the pilots at US.

So if they and the east faithful were fully confident that they were correct, then who cares about ripeness? They should have let the merits be evaluated on appeal and if there was any real “spanking” to be handed down – it would have come in the form of the 9th ordering the dismissal of the DFR charges, not lack of jurisdictional ripeness. If $eham had won the DFR appeal, Management may have capitulated on the NIC and then USAPA could have gotten down to the real brass tacks of negotiating a JCBA. It is very telling that $eham rolled the dice with most of his time before the 9th arguing on ripeness rather than confidently laying out his case for why abandoning binding arbitration was both justified and lawful given USAPA’s DFR responsibilities. So what you call a “win” I see as nothing but a minor delay in the process of justice being served.

In sum, why fight ripeness when you are so convinced that a DFR and the subsequent damages will never happen if/when the conditions for unquestionable ripeness ever do occur?

I don't know why I have to tell you this... but it was not the 9th's duty to rule on the merits of the case... only whether the desert Judge should have even heard it. What was really surprising to me is that the 9th commented at all on any other issues... i.e., whether the "NIC" had to be included as part of a CBA.

 

[cynic]

Wow! Looks like the lynch mob is back from purgatory. I count about 5 names who have been mysteriously absent for quite some time. This should be entertaining...

Buckle your seat belts. B)

Great, I love watching monkeys fling poo at the zoo. Now I don't even have to leave the comfort of my computer. 🙄

 

[CallawayGolf]

I don't know why I have to tell you this... but it was not the 9th's duty to rule on the merits of the case... only whether the desert Judge should have even heard it. What was really surprising to me is that the 9th commented at all on any other issues... i.e., whether the "NIC" had to be included as part of a CBA.

So you are saying that even is USAPA/$eham would have stipulated that the DFR case was indeed ripe, that the 9th would have deemed it to be not ripe anyway? Where do you get that notion?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Except that getting ripeness “right” according to the 9th hasn’t done anything to move the process along towards getting a better contract. It also didn’t do anything to ensure that USAPA’s DOH proposal would be accepted by Management. Think about it this way – if $eham and Cleary were so convinced that they have the correct interpretation of the laws and facts, then why would they have appealed to the 9th on the grounds that the case wasn’t ripe? They had a golden opportunity to let the judges at the 9th look at the merits of the DFR case and presumably put this whole issue to rest by now. Instead they played the ripeness card and accomplished precious little for any of the pilots at US.

So if they and the east faithful were fully confident that they were correct, then who cares about ripeness? They should have let the merits be evaluated on appeal and if there was any real “spanking” to be handed down – it would have come in the form of the 9th ordering the dismissal of the DFR charges, not lack of jurisdictional ripeness. If $eham had won the DFR appeal, Management may have capitulated on the NIC and then USAPA could have gotten down to the real brass tacks of negotiating a JCBA. It is very telling that $eham rolled the dice with most of his time before the 9th arguing on ripeness rather than confidently laying out his case for why abandoning binding arbitration was both justified and lawful given USAPA’s DFR responsibilities. So what you call a “win” I see as nothing but a minor delay in the process of justice being served.

In sum, why fight ripeness when you are so convinced that a DFR and the subsequent damages will never happen if/when the conditions for unquestionable ripeness ever do occur?

Actually for the purpose of clarfication ripeness was not the only issued filed for the appeal, in a test where a perfect score is the only acceptable pass and you miss the first one well no need to continue. You might want to take off your glasses, maybe your sight is lacking, age will do that to ya you know! MM!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Actually for the purpose of clarfication ripeness was not the only issued filed for the appeal, in a test where a perfect score is the only acceptable pass and you miss the first one well no need to continue. You might want to take off your glasses, maybe your sight is lacking, age will do that to ya you know! MM!

I didn't say ripeness was the only basis for the appeal, but it certainly got the bulk of $eham's time and attention. So I will agree with you on that point.

How about if you answer why USAPA and $eham made their case about ripeness rather than pursuing the weightier matter of the merits of the DFR case or the procedures Wake used in his courtroom? This was the golden opportunity and it would saved millions in future litigation and put the JCBA on the fastest track possible. Did ripeness take center stage because Cleary/$eham knew that this was their best chance to get a cheap victory in comparison to actually having the courts address the merits of the DFR claim?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Please post the arbitration ruling that shows this has been ordered

Fair enough. Please post the arbitration ruling denying the claim and thus your contention:

Stagnant LOA93 rates is what the east brought to the merger and it looks like you'll be keeping those for quite some time to come.

 

[VAflyGal]

SSDD. Sure is RIPE around here.
Poof! Back to the galley grunt thread.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You suppose Cleary doesn't like to be held to account for his failures? Then he won't like the representation election one bit!

I must have missed it. Do you westies have the ballot cards out that you've been threatening for, lo, over two years now?

(Didn't think so.)