US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Oh, well. Once in a while we ALL make mistakes. APA is making a HUGE one here. ALPA is WORTHLESS at everyting they do.

You crack me up! Is that an admission of being wrong? Or is it simply absent from your DNA to say "I was wrong" without all the explanation.

Here's another one you are wrong about... Show me where I predicted the ninth upholding Addington. You can't because you are wrong. (There's that word you can't stand again.) I always said my opinion was that the guilty verdict was correct. Once it got to the ninth I said it could go either way. I also was the first to admit I was surprised by the ripeness ruling and didn't see that coming.

You're also wrong about Nic, since it is being talked about in court as we speak.

Most of us talk in shades of gray since nothing is ever set in stone. You talk in absolutes as if you have some magic crystal ball. Win some lose some I guess. But it sure is fun getting your panties in a bunch. 😛

Will you man up and come here to admit you are wrong if Nic ends up being the final seniority list? I already said I'd be the first to eat crow it doesn't. Are you man enough? Or will you hide behind your computer. I bet I already know the answer. Never mind.

 

[Metroyet]

We love Cleary. We love USAPA:

"We love foodstamps!"

 

[767jetz]

BY the way, it's not sarcasm, it's called being a [fill in your own word].

Thorn in your back side? Good. That means it's working. Right back atcha old one.

 

[nycbusdriver]

No. Not seriously. A bit slow on the uptake today, huh? It's called sarcasm.

Oh. Not really slow on the uptake. You're just not very good at sarcasm.

 

[Phoenix]

Black's law dictionary definition of accept: "To receive something with approval and intention to keep it."

That has already been done. You/Parker/the west agreed to this. Implementation is, therefore, assured according to the law. You'll see.

Ah, the promise of future visual confirmation.

Maybe you could look up "Prater's final and binding" for us too in Black's dictionary while you're at it. In the Webster's Thesaurus of synonyms it lists "Shirley Temple pinky promise" and "no chocolate new years resolution."

 

[LSS]

Black's law dictionary definition of accept: "To receive something with approval and intention to keep it."

That has already been done. You/Parker/the west agreed to this. Implementation is, therefore, assured according to the law. You'll see.

Hey Ames...

Well since you think you know so much... why don't you just call up Dougie and the company attorneys and tell them to demand implementation of your precious NIC in any CBA... since they've "accepted" it and all... and while you're at it... why don't you tell him not to worry... 'cause... YOU'LL INDEMNIFY" the company against any lawsuits. Yeah... that's the ticket!

 

[Hate2fly]

The westies have the Trans States/Mesa/AWA low budget airline mentality......otherwise known as a dirt bag outfits! You better tell aqua and fergie they need to put out some more updates from the army of leotards. Keep the donations coming.

In the east we will just sit back and relax as we wait for our big year ahead 2011.......

LOA 93 pay restoration

Lump Sum $10,300 to each east pilot Happy New Year

MDA law suit

Profit Sharing

Attrition is right around the corner.........pay raises for every seat change......Nice!

USAPA has been the best money ever spent.

Mike Cleary what a great leader.

Hate

 

[usabusdriver]

And you are again, dead wrong. LOA 93 and its' expiration date were negotiated LONG before the West and AWA was even an issue. Long before USAPA was even around. So how do you even link the two? ...

BS,

What do you consider LONG? LOA 93 was signed in Oct 2004. The merge with AWA anounced in Mar 2005.

 

[Black Swan]

BS,

What do you consider LONG? LOA 93 was signed in Oct 2004. The merge with AWA anounced in Mar 2005.

Long enough not to be able to be linked. That is long enough.

 

[usabusdriver]

Okay. Let us quibble, then.

Say you have a country club membership (since you're always here, use your imagination.)

Your membership card says 1/1/2010 through 12/31/2010.

It doesn't say "expire" anywhere on the card.

Do you think it will get you past the C. C. door on, say, 1/15/2011? Do you think the receptionist will buy your argument that my card doesn't expire because it doesn't have the word "expire" printed on it?

Here is the language from LOA 93.

The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as
modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as
follows:
1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/3 1/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18.0%
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18(C), by 18.0% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate.

Everyone reads the first bullet point (1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.) to essentially mean freeze the current rates of pay until Dec 31, 2009 because that is what is most advantageous to the pilot group. What is important to see are the dates listed and the dates of associated with LOA 84 and the contract.

The contract date was Jan 1, 1998, with a pay rate anniversary of 8/31. The restructuring agreement (LOA 84) reset the pay rate anniversary to 5/1. LOA 93 was signed in October of 2004 with an amendable date of Dec 31, 2009 and left the pay anniversary at 5/1.

With the dates in mind, the modifier effective can now be seen not as a time line or an expiration date for this provision of the LOA, but rather a contractual term meaning the rates of pay in force from the contract dated Jan 1, 1998 as modified by the restructuring agreement(s) with the pay anniversary of 5/1 and the amendable date of 12/31/2009.

So if you use your logic that the date is specific and designed as a specific time period as your country club membership example, it would be from 10/22/04 through 12/31/09 right? Why would you use a starting date more than 5 months earlier?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You know what conclusion I recently came to? I may not work for one of the big three, but I have a GREAT job. At least I HAVE A LIFE, unlike some folks that SAY that they work for one of the big three, yet LIVE ON THIS BOARD!

Plus, I have a union that actually cares about its pilots, not one that just cares about keeping its officers on the ALPA dole!

GO USAPA!

 

[Hate2fly]

Oldie,

USAPA was the best thing we ever did!

Look at all the people we have told to go .... themselves.

ALPA

Nicolau

A bunch of right wing wack job judges

Keep the donations coming!

Hate

 

[luvn737s]

Plus, I have a union that actually cares about its pilots,

And the evidence of this would be what, Lawsuits against their own members? Disenfranchising 1/3 of the membership? Extorting money from that same group to finance the first and second? A "leader" who silences all opposition and restricts the other leaders from communicating withthe membership?

C'mon, I'm not even warmed up. Surely you've got some evidence that shows USAPA is concerned with any line pilot.

 

[Black Swan]

Here is the language from LOA 93.

The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as
modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as
follows:
1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/3 1/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18.0%
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18(C), by 18.0% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate.

Everyone reads the first bullet point (1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.) to essentially mean freeze the current rates of pay until Dec 31, 2009 because that is what is most advantageous to the pilot group. What is important to see are the dates listed and the dates of associated with LOA 84 and the contract.

The contract date was Jan 1, 1998, with a pay rate anniversary of 8/31. The restructuring agreement (LOA 84) reset the pay rate anniversary to 5/1. LOA 93 was signed in October of 2004 with an amendable date of Dec 31, 2009 and left the pay anniversary at 5/1.

With the dates in mind, the modifier effective can now be seen not as a time line or an expiration date for this provision of the LOA, but rather a contractual term meaning the rates of pay in force from the contract dated Jan 1, 1998 as modified by the restructuring agreement(s) with the pay anniversary of 5/1 and the amendable date of 12/31/2009.

So if you use your logic that the date is specific and designed as a specific time period as your country club membership example, it would be from 10/22/04 through 12/31/09 right? Why would you use a starting date more than 5 months earlier?

Why the LOA? For a specific reason.Outside the contract. To address an issue that has come up that wasn't originally addressed in the agreement. Why LOA 93? Do I have to tell you? Even though I voted NO. It was a temporary adjustment and has the dates to prove it. Kasher is going to see what it was no matter what you say. And he will recognize what sacrifice the East pilots made to make it go. And no he will see the twisting and turning the company is doing to avoid doing the right thing. He will make them pay. He sees the spirit of the LOA. There is no way a smart guy like Kasher is going to buy off on the beaten pilot syndrome that goes on here with some of the east crybabies and the west crybabies. He is a rational man, and most likely gives more appreciation to the profession than a lot of the posters on this site, who actually think that by keeping the east pay down, it will be a good thing. They even come from our constant "guest " from UAL who is so shortsighted and bitter because he was rejected, that he wants an entire pilot group to suffer for his shortcomings. I am waiting, and I believe Kasher is going to deliver. Because he is a lot more intelligent than the posters here give him credit for. Keep the beaten pilot syndrome going. We are moving along without you. You love to carry the companys' water any time you can.

 

[Black Swan]

And the evidence of this would be what, Lawsuits against their own members? Disenfranchising 1/3 of the membership? Extorting money from that same group to finance the first and second? A "leader" who silences all opposition and restricts the other leaders from communicating withthe membership?

C'mon, I'm not even warmed up. Surely you've got some evidence that shows USAPA is concerned with any line pilot.

Mike is an awesome guy. You just don't know him. Best leader we ever had! Keep the donations coming!! 😀