US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

You see that period at the end ong the line there? That ends that statement. Those are seperate lines. That date does not carry on to the other 3 lines.
Now look at the lump sum portion. It defines when and how much that payment will be. LOA 93 does not say the pay rate goes to anything. It does not say that it goes to LOA 84. It does not say anything.

usapa decided to arbitrate this for political reasons. It keeps all of you east guys hoping that usapa will be able to deliver on the first promise in 2.5 years. If they were so sure why the delay? This was done in Feb. Did not close until June because of usapa. then the delay with the letter exchange wit the arbitrator.

Since you are smart enough to explain to me what a period is, can you explain your sentence "You see that period at the end ong the line there?"

The reasons for the delay have been explained. It's just like anything else that comes from USAPA, you will not accept it.

 

[luvn737s]

The arbitrator doesn't seem to think it's worth coming into the office for. Hasn't the Anthill Mob had to go to the arbitrator's house in Florida or something every time there's testimony?

 

[Pi brat]

Mike Cleary getting news on the Nic:

I really liked the old aviation youtube links you used to post better.

How about that Empire retraction? Did you make it while I was out in the woods? Too many pages to go through when I got back and I like to give credit where credit is due.

Thanks.

 

[Pi brat]

The arbitrator doesn't seem to think it's worth coming into the office for. Hasn't the Anthill Mob had to go to the arbitrator's house in Florida or something every time there's testimony?

Serious question: Why hasn't the west attempted to recall Cleary?

 

[Metroyet]

Serious question: Why hasn't the west attempted to recall Cleary?

Why? He's an asset.

 

[Pi brat]

Why? He's an asset.

I've wondered if that was the reason.

 

[767jetz]

alpa gone yet?

Nope. In fact APA is looking to ALPA for help with their contract negotiations. Don't suppose they were knocking on USAPA's door? Didn't think so.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Nope. In fact APA is looking to ALPA for help with their contract negotiations. Don't suppose they were knocking on USAPA's door? Didn't think so.

People can make up anything on this board, can't they?

APA wouldn't have to knock. They are both members of CAPA. Another member is SWAPA. I think that if someone wanted advice on how to negotiate a contract and had a choice between getting advice from ALPA or SWAPA, SWAPA would win, hands down. If they did approach ALPA, it was probably about HOW NOT to negotiate a contract, or how NOT to conduct a merger.

 

[Missfit]

"The United MEC Strategic Planning and Strike Committee (SPSC) is working in conjunction with the Continental SPSC in organizing informational picketing at airports in Newark, N.J., and Houston, as well as at United World Headquarters in Chicago. The informational picketing is in response to management's intent to attack the scope provisions in the Continental pilots' contract.

The informational picketing is intended to send management the message that their attack on the scope provisions in the CAL pilots' collective bargaining agreement will not be tolerated by pilots, and the JCBA is about scope.."

Thanks Jetz,

I take it back. Thanks for letting me know UA's SPSC put something out on that.

 

[Black Swan]

Yes it does but not necessarily to the same amount. If something is frozen and then reduced does it revert to it's former amount when unfrozen?



That's something no one can argue with.

Jim

I believe the key to understanding this poorly written, hazy and ALPA sanctioned document is the SPIRIT of the agreement. Hopefully the arbitrator will have the experience and sensibility to look at the context in which the agreement was derived. It was derived in an atmosphere of bankruptcy and re-organization. It was a document, regardless of its faults, crafted in an extraordinary time of financial duress. It has to be viewed as such. It was an agreement between a company and its' pilots to "save" the company, and jobs. It was far reaching in its' financial impact. Draconian. It was given a specific time period, as noted on the document. A time period viewed by both parties as adequate to provide both short term relief, and a time period to rebuild to financial stability. It was then agreed and signed on for that time period that would conclude Dec. 31 2009, as clearly noted on the document.If it were intended to continue ad infinitum, there would be no date. No rational person could expect a group of employees to endure a massive pay cut as this indefinitely. It is UNREASONABLE (except to Parker and certain advocates here) This is why the time period is there, this is why I feel the arbitrator should find the East pilots contributed a massive pay concession for a adequate time period. The company has recovered, attempted to merge, and has posted very good financials. That is why it is reasonable for the East pilots to expect the pay concessions to end on STATED date, and revert to former. Any reasonable man should see this. This has NOTHING to do with ice or periods. It is the sensibility of a seasoned arbitrator to see the spirit of this agreement, and do what is right, not quibble over periods and specious analogy. Kasher is a reasonable and seasoned arbitrator. He will hopefully see the sacrifices of the East pilots, and restore the pay. Good Day.

 

[Black Swan]

Nope. In fact APA is looking to ALPA for help with their contract negotiations. Don't suppose they were knocking on USAPA's door? Didn't think so.

APA and SWA came to PHL for the road shows right before we canned ALPA. You should have heard them cheering us on!

 

[Metroyet]

APA and SWA came to PHL for the road shows right before we canned ALPA. You should have heard them cheering us on!

American Pilots Union Hires ALPA Bargaining Unit

Sure they did!!!!

 

[Coach Cabin]

Is the wording "Honor" in the TA? Is "implement" in the TA? Is "and will never be altered" in the TA? I don't see those words, all I see is that he parties will "accept" the list.

TA = Transition AGREEMENT. So by definition of agreement, yes, it does include "honor" and "implement" and "will never be altered" (unless agreed by both sides).


Definition of Agreement:

Meeting of minds (or an evidence of mutual accord or understanding) between two or more legally competent parties, about their relative duties and rights regarding current or future performance.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I believe the key to understanding this poorly written, hazy and ALPA sanctioned document is the SPIRIT of the agreement.

I wouldn't look for a snapback under the xmas tree this year, next year, or ever. But don't let that stop you from putting it at the top of your letter to Santa!

Hopefully the arbitrator will have the experience and sensibility to look at the context in which the agreement was derived.

That's what you said about Nicolau, until he issued his decision!

Kasher is a reasonable and seasoned arbitrator. He will hopefully see the sacrifices of the East pilots, and restore the pay. Good Day.

That's what you said about Nicolau, until he issued his decision!

 

[Pi brat]

TA = Transition AGREEMENT. So by definition of agreement, yes, it does include "honor" and "implement" and "will never be altered" (unless agreed by both sides).


Definition of Agreement:

Meeting of minds (or an evidence of mutual accord or understanding) between two or more legally competent parties, about their relative duties and rights regarding current or future performance.

So, does that apply to everything in the transition AGREEMENT? For example, can we expect the min fleet to never be changed? By your definition there can be no misunderstanding, so why the DJ action by the company? Why have Parker and Kirby said that we are in uncharted waters and they don't know what they can do, if it is an AGREEMENT? I mean, after all we have heard how the west sees the Kirby proposal as almost a done deal and the company wants a contract, so delay can't be a reason, right?