US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Thanks Jetz,

I take it back. Thanks for letting me know UA's SPSC put something out on that.

You're very welcome. Thanks.

 

[767jetz]

People can make up anything on this board, can't they?

If they did approach ALPA, it was probably about HOW NOT to negotiate a contract, or how NOT to conduct a merger.

Well, I can't argue with your first sentence, alternate-reality-boy. As you have proven it time and time again.

As for the rest, choke on this:

ALPA unit to help American's pilots in contract talks

Once again your track record speaks for itself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So, does that apply to everything in the transition AGREEMENT? For example, can we expect the min fleet to never be changed?

Notice that "unless agreed by both side" in Coach Cabin's post? So the answer is that the min fleet count will never be changed unless both sides agree to change it.

Of course, USAPA (and it's cheerleaders) seems to think it can unilaterally change whatever it wants, like the language about seniority integration. Why they're waiting for an arbitrator to rule on on pay restoration or the company for a joint contract is a mystery - all USAPA has to do is invoke the "that was the old CBA, not us" and tell the company what the pay will be or the combined contract will say.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Notice that "unless agreed by both side" in Coach Cabin's post? So the answer is that the min fleet count will never be changed unless both sides agree to change it.

Of course, USAPA (and it's cheerleaders) seems to think it can unilaterally change whatever it wants, like the language about seniority integration. Why they're waiting for an arbitrator to rule on on pay restoration or the company for a joint contract is a mystery - all USAPA has to do is invoke the "that was the old CBA, not us" and tell the company what the pay will be or the combined contract will say.

Jim

Jim,

I don't see everyone thinking it can be unilaterally changed, I see them saying the company must negotiate. Whether Parker would actually agree to anything other than the Nic has always been a mystery to me, and I've wondered why he doesn't just go with the Nic if he wants to get it over with. I've been told that the reason that he doesn't is that he has an obligation to negotiate. The guy that told me that has been right on everything else, we will see about this one......someday.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Contract language.

1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/3 1/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18.0%
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18(C), by 18.0% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate.

You see that period at the end ong the line there? That ends that statement. Those are seperate lines. That date does not carry on to the other 3 lines.
Now look at the lump sum portion. It defines when and how much that payment will be. LOA 93 does not say the pay rate goes to anything. It does not say that it goes to LOA 84. It does not say anything.

usapa decided to arbitrate this for political reasons. It keeps all of you east guys hoping that usapa will be able to deliver on the first promise in 2.5 years. If they were so sure why the delay? This was done in Feb. Did not close until June because of usapa. then the delay with the letter exchange wit the arbitrator.

No one said that date carries over to anything else but the pay rates. If the arbitrator rules in favor of the pilots, LOA 93 will remain alive and effective indefinitely in every other aspect. We on the east already know that. ASo, what's your point?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hey mikey, why all the typing then.

He's posted 116 times. You've posted nearly 2600 times.

And you seriously ask HIM "why all the typing"? Get real.

 

[mikey60]

Tread softly, Michael me boy, as the board rules allow your identity to be revealed in case of legal proceedings.

It cost the AA boys and girls a tidy sum a few years back. It could happen to YouSapa.

This is only my personal feeling and I of course would do nothing to slow down this train wreck. But your correct, it would be just my luck.

 

[Ames]

Is the wording "Honor" in the TA? Is "implement" in the TA? Is "and will never be altered" in the TA? I don't see those words, all I see is that he parties will "accept" the list.

Black's law dictionary definition of accept: "To receive something with approval and intention to keep it."

That has already been done. You/Parker/the west agreed to this. Implementation is, therefore, assured according to the law. You'll see.

 

[Ames]

I've wondered if that was the reason.

No, truly. Cleary's stupidity and utter lack of class will eventually destroy usapa.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

I don't see everyone thinking it can be unilaterally changed, I see them saying the company must negotiate. Whether Parker would actually agree to anything other than the Nic has always been a mystery to me, and I've wondered why he doesn't just go with the Nic if he wants to get it over with.

I didn't realize that your question about the min fleet requirement lasting forever as rhetorical, but I guess it was.

As asking for the declaratory judgement indicates, and the company's motion says, they've got potential liability either way they go. If US negotiates for something other than the NIC they've been warned that the West will bring suit. If they insist on the NIC USAPA can accuse them of failure to negotiate in good faith and the NMB gets involved. As much as some claim that the company is just using the seniority dispute as an excuse for stalling, the facts are the facts - the company can't negotiate seniority without liability unless a judge says they can.

There's no reason that the rest of the contract can't be wrapped up, and I guess anyone is free to assume that the reason that hasn't happened is the company dragging their feet, USAPA dragging it's feet, or just hard nosed negotiating by both sides.

Jim

 

[767jetz]

And you seriously ask HIM "why all the typing"? Get real.

No. Not seriously. A bit slow on the uptake today, huh? It's called sarcasm. I was mocking him. (and others who love to throw such questions out when they don't like what's been said.) I guess it's much easier to throw barbs and redirect a conversation than actually respond with facts or a well reasoned opinion. So I thought I'd give THEIR method a try. 😛

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Well, I can't argue with your first sentence, alternate-reality-boy. As you have proven it time and time again.

As for the rest, choke on this:

ALPA unit to help American's pilots in contract talks

Once again your track record speaks for itself.

What record is that? The one that predicted the outcome of the Ninth, when you siad it would uphold Judge Wake? I'll take it. You can add the prediction that Judge Silver will soon throw out the case by the company. Count on it.

Oh, well. Once in a while we ALL make mistakes. APA is making a HUGE one here. ALPA is WORTHLESS at everyting they do.

ALPA SUX!

BY the way, it's not sarcasm, it's called being a [fill in your own word].

USAPA RULES!

Go Captain Cleary!

 

[Ames]

What record is that? The one that predicted the outcome of the Ninth, when you siad it would uphold Judge Wake? I'll take it. You can add the prediction that Judge Silver will soon throw out the case by the company. Count on it.

Oh, well. Once in a while we ALL make mistakes. APA is making a HUGE one here. ALPA is WORTHLESS at everyting they do.

ALPA SUX!

BY the way, it's not sarcasm, it's called being a [fill in your own word].

USAPA RULES!

Go Captain Cleary!

Lemmings to the sea.....

 

[Metroyet]

What record is that? The one that predicted the outcome of the Ninth, when you siad it would uphold Judge Wake? I'll take it. You can add the prediction that Judge Silver will soon throw out the case by the company. Count on it.

Oh, well. Once in a while we ALL make mistakes. APA is making a HUGE one here. ALPA is WORTHLESS at everyting they do.

ALPA SUX!

BY the way, it's not sarcasm, it's called being a [fill in your own word].

USAPA RULES!

Go Captain Cleary!

I'll make a prediction. Lee Moak will have Us Air back in the ALPA fold before the end of his first term. Cleary is a emotional drooling moron in comparison. Moak has earned respect. Cleary has earned laughter and contempt.

 

[luvthe9]

I'll make a prediction. Lee Moak will have Us Air back in the ALPA fold before the end of his first term. Cleary is a emotional drooling moron in comparison. Moak has earned respect. Cleary has earned laughter and contempt.

Thanks for the laugh today, we all needed it. We love Cleary. We love USAPA. A great day to all USAPA members, both East and West! 😀 🙄