US Pilots Labor Discussion

[exB717Flyer]

... and made huge sacrifices over the years (including furlough) to keep USAir(ways) alive (despite abysmal management) that we are not prepared to sit idly by and see them take yet another hit at the hands of a weak, ineffective, and self-serving union (ALPA.)

I had to laugh when I got to the end of that sentence since I knew you were describing USAPA. Whatever made you feel it necessary to add the parenthetical part?

 

[BoeingBoy]

delete

 

[traderjake]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Ames]

This could have been over a long time ago if Doug had said "The TA produced the Nic and I'm bound to implement it". He hasn't.

Absolutely true. I believe the reason he hasn't is because he knows that the east would melt down enough to hurt the company badly. He is, however, a very good bean counter and the day he determines it is in the company's best interest to move on he will do so.

The request for declaratory judgement is one attempt to do so (while hiding behind the court) but we know he CAN do so without the court if need be.

In addition, the world knows that Doug officially accepted the Nicolau list nearly three years ago. He played us well for this time at significant saving to the company. That looks good for him in the eyes of his peers. Should he do an about face and reject an agreement he has already made does not bode well for him among his peers, despite the overall opinion the worker bees have of management types.

It's only my opinion but I believe that it is becoming more and more likely that the Nicolau list will actually be final and binding. The hard liners can scream and yell all they want but common sense prevails.

 

[Ames]

Golf,

Management is mandated by law to reach an agreement with USAPA.

Regarding seniority management only has two choices.....They can either accept USAPA's integrated DOH list with C&R's or maintain the status quo of separate operations. It really doesn't make much difference which one they choose.

underpants

So.... what you're saying here is that management is required to reach an agreement with usapa but usapa is not required to reach an agreement with management.

Must be real comfy in your alternate universe.

 

[Ames]

Well there is a difference between healthy and unhealthy narcissism.

It's healthy to feel like you should be treated fairly and to stand up for yourself.

Unhealthy narcissism or what I'd look at as narcissistic entitlement is when one seeks to be seen as superior to others...an example may be feeling that they deserve to have much more seniority than someone with more time served at a company. Not willing to serve their time so to speak.

Oh, do you mean like hundreds of formerly furloughed pilots (with less time actually serving the company) becoming senior to captains, such as myself just because they think they're entitled to this?

You need to get the facts, lady, I've told you so before. You're starting to really make a fool of yourself.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Oh one last thing about the AOL mailing,I don't care that I got it and I will try to read what they say despite my bias.

As far as how our wives feel.........I hope mine never unleashes on you guys!

My old lady said the AOL mailer made a real bad cat pan liner. Couldn't hold the piss from the puss -- kind of like the Westies argument.

Later,
Eye

 

[767jetz]

...and the 9th didn't say the jury got it RIGHT either, just the case was premature.

No, the 9th did not say the jury got it right. They didn't have to. The jury said the jury got it right. That's all that really matters. The 9th also didn't say that the sky is blue, or that water is wet, or what have you. Did they? Do they need to list everything that is right? Obviously no. They do have to say if something is NOT right, and they did not. All they ruled was simply NOT RIPE. Merit was conspicuously absent from their ruling.

 

[Missfit]

Right...Let me get this straight....The west doesn't want to have to pay for East pilots careers, on the other hand it's perfectly acceptable for said East pilots that have put in years of service, not even talking about DOH, to pay for the West's careers.

I'm sorry if your promised upgrade doesn't happen as quickly as they said it would in your hire class, Stick with the airline business long enough and you'll realize that it usually happens that way. The promised land is always delayed, the East knows this and has put in those years. You on the West feel so entitled that you don't care who you step on because gosh darn it you deserve it and you'll tell anyone that will listen.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Not for nothing, didn't a west pilot recently marry a senior executive vice president of People and Communications? Wasn't said pilot that married Sr. VP also ex alpa? Hmmmmm

You mean these two?

http://www.zumaphoto.com/blog/2010/04/02/park-city-community-church-wedding-elise-russ-part-1/#more-2655

I certainly hope not. That's quite the shindig and they make a 'lovely' couple. Though at their ages it would have been more appropriate to run off to Hawaii, Caribbean, Tahoe or Vegas. Just sayin'...

Later,
Eye

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Right...Let me get this straight....The west doesn't want to have to pay for East pilots careers, on the other hand it's perfectly acceptable for said East pilots that have put in years of service, not even talking about DOH, to pay for the West's careers.

I'm sorry if your promised upgrade doesn't happen as quickly as they said it would in your hire class, Stick with the airline business long enough and you'll realize that it usually happens that way. The promised land is always delayed, the East knows this and has put in those years. You on the West feel so entitled that you don't care who you step on because gosh darn it you deserve it and you'll tell anyone that will listen.

Missfit,
You need to look at the Westies like a toddler having a temper tantrum. Right now, they are in the screaming mode trying to be heard. As you know the basic points of tantrums are:

Emotional Immaturity
Emotional Insecurity
Stress
Selfishness

I don't think it's much longer before they're on the floor wallowing around 'seizure-like' or doing the deadbug because ANOTHER judge told them the Nicolau lollipops are illegal and just bad for them.

Wah- Wah...

Later,
Eye

 

[hp_fa]

It's only my opinion but I believe that it is becoming more and more likely that the Nicolau list will actually be final and binding. The hard liners can scream and yell all they want but common sense prevails.

I'm waiting for $eham or Granath to explain, face-to-face, to Judge Silver how final and binding means it is just a negotiating position.

 

[nic4us]

Right...Let me get this straight....The west doesn't want to have to pay for East pilots careers, on the other hand it's perfectly acceptable for said East pilots that have put in years of service, not even talking about DOH, to pay for the West's careers.

I'm sorry if your promised upgrade doesn't happen as quickly as they said it would in your hire class, Stick with the airline business long enough and you'll realize that it usually happens that way. The promised land is always delayed, the East knows this and has put in those years. You on the West feel so entitled that you don't care who you step on because gosh darn it you deserve it and you'll tell anyone that will listen.

You still have not got it straight.

My upgrade happened much faster than I expected, even though nobody promised me anything in my new hire class. As a matter of fact, I upgraded quickly enough, that I have nearly as many and possibly more years as a captain, than some of the furloughees, who would like to be senior to me, have in total length of service. My total lenght of service far exceeds many of the furloughed who are trying to steal my position. Recently flew with a 1989 usair hire who was hired at AWA in 2003. His total pre-merger length of service, including his two years at AWA pre-merger, did not add up to the years I have been in the left seat.

I have been in the airline bussiness for some time now. Probably know more about it than you or your husband, and find your statement about sticking around both ignorant and condescending.

You do have one thing right. The West most certainly does feel entitled. We are entitled to have the contracts and agreements we have entered into upheld, not simply dismissed because a bunch of disgruntled, formerly unemployed, malcontents, think they can steal our positions and status, on the advice of a little lawyer who told them they could by changing their names. So we will tell anyone who is willing to listen, and so far that has worked pretty well.

We certainly have the ear of the company and the federal court system.

In the end, the east pilots are not paying for the West's careers, but they are definitely running the risk of paying monetary damages they have cause to those same West pilots earnings.

 

[luvthe9]

AOL is holding USAPA's head underwater...for the sheer entertainment value of that, I'd gladly donate whatever it takes. The West is NEVER going to simply go away.

Why is AOL screwing over the 24 AWA guys on LTD. If I were one tof those 24 I would be very pissed at AOL. Do they know USAPA is trying to keep their benefits going and Diddo or Dotto or what ever his name is won't help Tracy. I love watching AOL screw over it's own. P.S. your already gone!!!

 

[AvgJoe]

Oh, do you mean like hundreds of formerly furloughed pilots (with less time actually serving the company) becoming senior to captains, such as myself just because they think they're entitled to this?

You need to get the facts, lady, I've told you so before. You're starting to really make a fool of yourself.

IMHO we need to get away from judging our careers based on management's actions. With this in mind I believe DOH is more appropriate than LOS. The pilots that were furloughed all of those years had worked hard to obtain "the brass ring" and get hired at a major carrier. The fact that management was inept and eventually furloughed them is not their fault. The same argument applies to "who bought whom", and "our airline was in better shape". None of these things have anything to do with the pilots. We may never achieve a nationwide seniority list in this country, but DOH comes as close to a merit-based (read experience-based) career progression as we can come in this industry.