US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Ames]

Nic, massive windfall. The undoing of ALPA . The only ones who see merit in it benefitted from same windfall. Outlier, black swan.

Your opinion. Bucking current trend. Enough said.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Please name one factual good point "she" made.

Better go find that mirror. Your arguments are getting worse and worse.

The reason ALPA is the ONLY union having these merger issues is because anything other than DOH or LOS just doesn't work. PERIOD. Never has, never will.

The NIC is DEAD! Time to move on!

 

[767jetz]

I would like to pose to both sides a hypothetical question--kind of a what if, and would appreciate your honest thoughts on the subject.

WHAT IF there were no unions for the pilots--if they were all at will employees? How do you guys think the integration would go? I realize it may not be entirely relevant since you are most certainly dealing with unions, but I'd be interested to know what you think--on both sides.

That said, for what it's worth, I do hope you can come to some sort of agreement in the not too distant future which leaves everyone poised to move forward.

My BEST to you all.....

Art, it's an interesting question, although the answers will probably not lead to anything useful between these two groups.

I worked for a non union airline many years ago. The pilots were always under the threat of termination if they didn't follow management's wishes. Even to the extent of being pressured to fly airplanes that were questionably maintained, or fudging weight an balance numbers to get payload on, etc.

My guess is that if there were no unions, the company would decide what way would benefit them the most and tell everyone to accept it or hit the road. Interestingly enough, under such a scenario, one of the cheapest ways would be to structure "seniority" by equipment type and seat. That way no one has to be re-trained, or re-qualified.

 

[Ames]

Better go find that mirror. Your arguments are getting worse and worse.

The reason ALPA is the ONLY union having these merger issues is because anything other than DOH or LOS just doesn't work. PERIOD. Never has, never will.

The NIC is DEAD! Time to move on!

I say again, your opinion. Out of step with the rest of the industry. Enough said.

The Nic is far from dead. You can keep saying it but that does not make it true.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I say again, your opinion. Out of step with the rest of the industry. Enough said.

So, ALPA, the ONLY union that can't get their cr@p together, is the "rest of the industry"? Not buying it. And it's NOT just MY opinion.

The NIC is STILL DEAD! You STILL need to get over it!

 

[Missfit]

I do not believe that you have read the articles you claim to have read, simply by the obscure posts you have made. In addition, I said you are making a fool of yourself - different than calling you a fool. I also do not believe you are a spouse, simply an east pilot posing as one.

Stating I'm making a fool of myself would imply that I'm a fool would it not?

I'm not sure what you want Ames...want me to quote something from Nic or the trial verbatim? You're as capable of reading it as I am. Would that be enough to prove it to you? I don't feel like I have anything to prove, least of all to you.

I have read it. I am married to an east pilot...happily I might add. Not sure why you feel the need to question me on that...

I stated I was married to an east pilot because some people were suggesting that we don't support our spouses in their delay for a contract. Suggesting that we're a greedy bunch of wives was slightly insulting...We've lived with loa93 as long as our husbands have, we know what they've gone through in their careers. We support them in this fight.

 

[luvn737s]

Somebodys' A$$ is going to be in a serious crack on this one, no doubt! The data -names and nicknames, addresses matched CATCREW to a T. It will be extremely easy to use the logon protocol and security to trap this rat. Wait until some poor guy in IT is asked to come clean on this one. He/she will get canned along with the ones that asked for it unless there was a good reason.

Are you demanding another assessment to fund this goose chase as well.

Goose? Goose? Where's that goose?

You guys love conspiracies, yet cannot grasp the power of unity.

Ironic in a pitiful way.

 

[luvn737s]

I think that once a petition for a representation vote was allowed by the NMB, ALPA was required to make that available.

I think you are very wrong about this.

 

[Missfit]

The Company doesn't need to be paid to do their due diligence regarding the "leak" of names and addresses of the east pilots

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I think you are very wrong about this.

Betcha I'm not!

Keep throwing around your misinformation if you must, but reasonable people STILL won't believe you.

 

[Black Swan]

Are you demanding another assessment to fund this goose chase as well.

Goose? Goose? Where's that goose?

You guys love conspiracies, yet cannot grasp the power of unity.

Ironic in a pitiful way.

No, no assessment. Just simple adherence to the corporate ethics policy. You know, the one they put out in the distance learning modules. And in the pamphlet they mailed to every employee? Things like this are CLEARLY spelled out. No goose chase.Just make the company follow their own guidelines. It is that simple. Some of the biggest empires have fallen from things that started as simple as this.

 

[mikey60]

It appears, from 2 posts, that the AirCal pilots merged with the AA pilots. I had said by DOH which is what the source I checked said) but according to supercruiser it was DOH to/through 1984 hires then a ratio for hires after that. Anyway, the AirCal pilots apparently weren't stapled to the bottom of AA's list as your brother claims.

Jim

12 to 1 ratio isn't DOH

 

[BoeingBoy]

12 to 1 ratio isn't DOH

Correct and neither is it stapling. Apparently it went DOH to or through 1984 hire dates then ratio'ed after that. Which is why I said that the source I checked was apparently wrong when it stated that the AA/AirCal pilots merged by DOH while supercruiser said it was a combination of DOH then ratio after AA introduced the B scale.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Correct and neither is it stapling. Apparently it went DOH to or through 1984 hire dates then ratio'ed after that. Which is why I said that the source I checked was apparently wrong when it stated that the AA/AirCal pilots merged by DOH while supercruiser said it was a combination of DOH then ratio after AA introduced the B scale.

Jim

I'm not aware of a single merger involving AA where the AA pilots didn't seriously screw their merger partners. Therefore, I conclude that the ONLY reason that DOH was used for the pre 1984 pilots (if true) was because that somehow gave the AA pilots a windfall. In fact, it was the heinous way they treated the TWA pilots that resulted in the McCaskill-Bond law. The only travesty is that groups in the same union are not protected by it. ALPA won that one.

I still believe that the ONLY consistent way to fairly combine labor groups is some sort of DOH/LOS formula. Nothing else works.

 

[mikey60]

Correct and neither is it stapling. Apparently it went DOH to or through 1984 hire dates then ratio'ed after that. Which is why I said that the source I checked was apparently wrong when it stated that the AA/AirCal pilots merged by DOH while supercruiser said it was a combination of DOH then ratio after AA introduced the B scale.

Jim

Read WIKIPEDIA for Air Cal, AA " transfered them to Reno Air " in the mid 90's and then purchased Reno Air in 1999?