US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The frustration level is rising-
I think we can all agree that changing seniority at the whim of a union IS NOT like negotiating crew meals (my favorite quote from the rather robusk round faced, mustache wearing with a stupid look on his face individual who visited phoenix with his posse during the SAPs road show proclaiming as such). HA HA HA. How's that workin' out for ya guys? HOw is LOA snapback working out for ya guys? Do you see anything wrong with that arbitration too? Or is it too early to tell... have to wait for that decision to decide if it too was "flawed".
All of us out west understand quite well the level we are dealing with. The contempt, hate and contempt is reaching a feverish pitch and it only spells one thing: frustration of epic proportions. I especially enjoyed the dude that came on here with two years left proclaiming he is sticking with his AFOs, I think the nice old man's name was Bob. Well, Bob, NEWS FLASH: you don't have anything to lose with two years left: that ship has sailed. I mean, who on here actually thinks a contract will be signed in two years anyway? This is uSAPa were talking about! Almost three years into it and nothing to show for it- no DOH list, no contract, no LOA93 snapback, no MDA settlement, no pension resolution...
You guys out east must enjoy your eternal life inside a washing machine stuck forever on the spin cycle.

We will enjoy our eternal attrition while the rest plays out, remember not to play in yellow sand! MM! Frustration? You wiish, did ya see our last bid?

 

[crazystnic]

The bid was great, and many more to come. No frustration for me or many of my friends here.
Our raises will come with quick upgrades as a separate list...
Many new east 190 capts.. many new FO's to 767 FO.. good stuff.

that's why a snapshot at the worst possible time in a career is not a fair system.
DOH is fair...

 

[Freighterguynow]

The contempt, hate and contempt is reaching a feverish pitch and it only spells one thing: frustration of epic proportions.

Yet another reason to vote "NO".

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Wow!! I see you failed to read AGAIN!! What is said was why on earth would he wated money now on a DJ whne he could stall IN negotiations by saying no on several subjects.

AWA320

What you failed was your inability to read "between the lines" !Did you ever think, maybe this DJ is for the opposite purpose of putting together this airline, maybe someone that buys a part of it will not want to be sucked into litigation that stalls their synergy? MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The frustration level is rising-
I think we can all agree that changing seniority at the whim of a union IS NOT like negotiating crew meals (my favorite quote from the rather robusk round faced, mustache wearing with a stupid look on his face individual who visited phoenix with his posse during the SAPs road show proclaiming as such). HA HA HA. How's that workin' out for ya guys? HOw is LOA snapback working out for ya guys? Do you see anything wrong with that arbitration too? Or is it too early to tell... have to wait for that decision to decide if it too was "flawed".
All of us out west understand quite well the level we are dealing with. The contempt, hate and contempt is reaching a feverish pitch and it only spells one thing: frustration of epic proportions. I especially enjoyed the dude that came on here with two years left proclaiming he is sticking with his AFOs, I think the nice old man's name was Bob. Well, Bob, NEWS FLASH: you don't have anything to lose with two years left: that ship has sailed. I mean, who on here actually thinks a contract will be signed in two years anyway? This is uSAPa were talking about! Almost three years into it and nothing to show for it- no DOH list, no contract, no LOA93 snapback, no MDA settlement, no pension resolution...
You guys out east must enjoy your eternal life inside a washing machine stuck forever on the spin cycle.

Your correct, start the card drive! MM!

 

[767jetz]

Has anyone heard from the Ffocus group lately? They were on here trying to help solve this and I have not seen them on this board lately.

They mostly abandoned US and went to CO (or should I say United) and some other airlines.

How your crappy airline screws their (former) preferred customers.

 

[nic4us]

Pilot692 said,

"The "walking around in circles" in BOS was for the base closure. Did not the same occur in LAS? Or is it only "ignorant" when performed in an east base?"


You are correct in that I misstated the bases I intended to comment on. I said PHL and BOS when I meant to comment on PHL and DCA. I have two points to make about the differences in the info picketing in PHL and DCA when compared to LAS and BOS.

First, as stated in my original post, why the info picketing if usapa believes LOA84 pay restoration is imminent. Is usapa now seeking a pay table in excess of LOA84, or which is disingenuous, the picketing or the LOA93 grievence?

Second, and I thank you for reminding me about BOS and LAS, did not both of those events have crewmembers from the opposite camp participating. I know for a fact that east members were in attendance in LAS showing support, and I believe the West had at least token support in attendance in BOS.

So, to answere your question, it is "ignorant" no matter what the venue, when the purpose of the event is insincere, divides the two groups, and has an underlying hypocritical intention.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

First, as stated in my original post, why the info picketing if usapa believes LOA84 pay restoration is imminent. Is usapa now seeking a pay table in excess of LOA84, or which is disingenuous, the picketing or the LOA93 grievence?

The LOA 93 grievance only deals with pay. The new contract can be worth more in total, even if the pay is lower than what we had in LOA84. The company hasn't gotten serious in negotiations yet even with NMB help. (Reference NAC notes regarding sick banks and LTD bridge.) Any pressure put on them in the press or at the airports will make a difference, especially if we are patient. Seniority will eventually be decided in the courts and whichever way it goes a good contract will be needed or we will not be combined.

Additionally, unless the TA is amended, E-190 pay can not change in this next contract.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

They mostly abandoned US and went to CO (or should I say United) and some other airlines.

How your crappy airline screws their (former) preferred customers.

And your point, US is a crappy airline, Ok, next revelation! MM!

 

[cleardirect]

The LOA 93 grievance only deals with pay. The new contract can be worth more in total, even if the pay is lower than what we had in LOA84. The company hasn't gotten serious in negotiations yet even with NMB help. (Reference NAC notes regarding sick banks and LTD bridge.) Any pressure put on them in the press or at the airports will make a difference, especially if we are patient. Seniority will eventually be decided in the courts and whichever way it goes a good contract will be needed or we will not be combined.

Additionally, unless the TA is amended, E-190 pay can not change in this next contract.

Pressure in the press? How does that make a difference? The public does not care about what they perceive as overpaid under worked pilots. The public buys tickets based on price. Nothing else. All of the ads and circle jerks in the world makes no difference. Until usapa is released and the public travel might be disrupted they ignore us. (usapa will not be released BTW)

Being patient!!! 2.5 years and counting of usapa. 2.5 years of ALPA prior to that. Another 4-5 years more. How patient do you want to be?


Besides companies are never serious about getting a contract why do you guys think us air is any different? The difference here is a union incapable of getting a contract. An inexperienced NAC that has no idea what they are doing and no way to get there. We have a group of east pilots that are holding up the entire process because they will not live up to their deal and continue to divide the pilot group. That is not managements fault. That is east pilots fault.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You can put 2 weeks together without using vacation.

Can you do it if you are mid- to lower-level in your category? Or are perks like this limited only to those at the top?

(This is a serious question, and not meant as flame bait.)

Educate us out east on PBS. What are the downsides? There must be some. How do the bottom block holders fare in this PBS nirvana?

 

[cleardirect]

And your point, US is a crappy airline, Ok, next revelation! MM!

And why is us air a crappy company? Don’t say management, that has changed several times. The common denominator is the employees that have been here for 20-25-30 years. AWA was a pretty good place to work. Us air is not.

You guys made it what it is a crappy place to work.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Pressure in the press? How does that make a difference? The public does not care about what they perceive as overpaid under worked pilots. The public buys tickets based on price. Nothing else. All of the ads and circle jerks in the world makes no difference. Until usapa is released and the public travel might be disrupted they ignore us. (usapa will not be released BTW)

Being patient!!! 2.5 years and counting of usapa. 2.5 years of ALPA prior to that. Another 4-5 years more. How patient do you want to be?


Besides companies are never serious about getting a contract why do you guys think us air is any different? The difference here is a union incapable of getting a contract. An inexperienced NAC that has no idea what they are doing and no way to get there. We have a group of east pilots that are holding up the entire process because they will not live up to their deal and continue to divide the pilot group. That is not managements fault. That is east pilots fault.

OK, I guess your going to blame USAPA for the F/A lack of contract, and they've had the same union, let's see what's in common,hey it's management, MM!

 

[autofixer]

And why is us air a crappy company? Don’t say management, that has changed several times. The common denominator is the employees that have been here for 20-25-30 years. AWA was a pretty good place to work. Us air is not.

You guys made it what it is a crappy place to work.

Good. Buy me out and you can have it!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Sure they can if the right case is filed! The east can be forced to honor the award and that is just about where we are headed however the companies case does not ask this question. A seperate west lawsuit will ask the court to force the issue like a judgement while asking for damages. Usapa sealed your fate and the DFR1 case did what it needed to do and that was preserve the rights of the west pilots. Now all one need do is wait and you can only go one of two ways, violate me by forcing me to go DOH or by not negotiating in good faith on a collective bargaining agreement. Either way you are caught by the short and curlys!

One of the most commonly asked questions concerning arbitration is: "What can I do with the arbitration award once it is rendered?" The short answer is that absent very unusual circumstance's (such as fraud or corruption in the procurement of the award), an arbitration award can easily be confirmed as a court judgment, which can then be used to collect payment from the losing party through judicial enforcement.

Enforcement procedures for arbitration awards are primarily governed by the Federal Arbitration Act (Federal Act) and the Uniform Arbitration Act (Uniform Act).1 If an arbitration case involves interstate commerce or maritime issues, the Federal Act2 applies.3 Those cases which have considered the meaning of the phrase "interstate commerce" (as used in the Federal Act) have universally held that very little "interstate" connection is necessary 4Accordingly, the Federal Act is likely to apply to the overwhelming majority of modern day arbitrations. State arbitration statutes, including those which derive from the Uniform Act, apply to the extent the Federal Act does not apply or has not preempted them.5As a general matter, both Acts provide simplified enforcement procedures which require only that the winning party file a motion in an appropriate court to confirm the arbitration award. The court must confirm the award and enter judgment on it unless, upon timely motion of the unsuccessful party and for one of the very few reasons allowed by the Federal Act or Uniform Act, the court vacates, modifies or corrects the arbitration award. There is a presumption in favor of the validity of the award, and under either Act a party's ability to block entry of judgment is extremely limited. Once a court enters judgment, relatively simple procedures exist to execute the judgment and pursue collection from the losing party's assets.

AWA320

This is all well and good. In fact, it's about the same stuff I found in looking at the Federal Arbitration Act.

Tell me this, then:

Why didn't the West MEC (when they had the chance and saw the USAPA card drive going full steam) file to have a court confirm the Nicolau? If this option were indeed open to them, wouldn't their failure to do exactly that be a DFR complaint?

I'm not flame-baiting here, but simply wish to know WHY this confirmation by a court had/has not taken place if it is a viable option for the west?

Please don't go down the road of "two federal judges and a jury have confirmed it." That is NOT at all what the Federal Arbitration Act is talking about. The F.A.A. has specific provisions for confirmation and how to go about it.

If it was available, why wasn't it used? If is was not available, why even bring it up now, i.e. what's the point?