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Its a negotiation. Nothing is settled until it is settled.

But if you want to play the little hypothetical.... What if the company agrees to take DOH, with LOA 93 for everyone, and an indemnity policy for any lawsuits? I mean be creative... you guys are made differently out there. :lol:

Negotiations ended. Final and binding arbitration ensued. That's the process you agreed to. That's the process you hope to avoid now that you didn't get your way. Yes. We are made differently out here. You people will never measure up. You will forever be small. You will forever be cowards.
 
Unfortunately, you guys are getting profit sharing. There was a lot of legal discussion, and unfortunately, you have to get it. So you see USAPA is very careful handling you guys. There is going to be no DFR with a new contract. How are you going to cry damage like you always default to when we gave you profit sharing, also a DC plan and you stiffed us on pay parity? This, as we have said all along, is going to hurt you at the time we want it to hurt you.
This really makes me sick. giving these worthless underhanded bunch of cry babies anything want to vomit, I think

I'll go call in sick.
 
I disagree. Even if we were in the majority we would not have done what they did. I never would have supported it and I don't believe anyone I know would either. Binding arbitration is final. Trying to use loopholes to avoid your obligations is despicable and I don't know many people of that caliber from the former AWA.
REALLY, has any AWA pilot ever filed bankruptcy? MM!
 
I disagree. Even if we were in the majority we would not have done what they did. I never would have supported it and I don't believe anyone I know would either. Binding arbitration is final. Trying to use loopholes to avoid your obligations is despicable and I don't know many people of that caliber from the former AWA.

Maybe you wouldn't have, and maybe I wouldn't have, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't have been taken for a ride by those that would have. Once rationalization takes place, it's hard to say what would happen.

I just happen to believe that most airline pilots are basically the same animal. I believe you can take any given airline and define people however you choose, and the percentages will break out to be the same.

If we are all such angels, why did one of our own forward web posts for usapa to use in the rico suit?

You may be right, I may be wrong. But I believe what I wrote.
 
Its a negotiation. Nothing is settled until it is settled.

But if you want to play the little hypothetical.... What if the company agrees to take DOH, with LOA 93 for everyone, and an indemnity policy for any lawsuits? I mean be creative... you guys are made differently out there. :lol:
Why would the company agree to DOH without a court order?

Why would any pilot agree to LOA 93. I mean beside east pilot again. Are you saying that you would agree to LOA 93 as long you got DOH? I guess seniority is for sale. At least you guys are going to pay for.

How would usapa indemnify the company? What would a $8-9 billion bond cost? You know the MDA guy 300 are asking for $175 mill. You are talking 1800 west pilots for the rest of our careers. You guys know about that right. How much do you whine about giving up? what is it today 20 billion. The number keeps going up.

Yes we are made differently. We live up to our agreements and our word means something.
 
Once the 9th says they are not touching it either, then the company says they are not touching DOH. Then usapa will ask the NMB to be released, and the NMB will tell usapa to pound sand, and go rethink their "internal union process".
Then they can dim the lights and reach for the Kleenex.
 
For someone who is ignoring me, you sure have much to say to me. :lol:

Once again, reading comprehension is lacking on your part. I said I would not sift through 300 pages just to make you happy. Anyone who frequents these pages knows the truth about the gloating I refered to. I happened to remember one quote that was only a few pages back. Besides, you said post one. That's what I did. Suddenly not good enough for you. Changing the game after the fact? What a surprise. You are quite predictable though. As usual you redirect rather than admit being wrong about anything. Lie all you want... USAPA was salivating at the chance to screw the west out of profit sharing. Until reality smacked them in the face. Feel free to continue "ignoring" me.
I find that very easy to do.....
 
...wasn't it some westie that said " you can't believe anything Parker or Kirby say" Put your other mask on lenny your really sounding stupid.
I was being sarcastic. People on both sides pick and choose some of his little nuggets of bs to latch on to. Like my uncle told me about his time at United decades ago, "they told us a lot of things, except the truth."

Now go call in sick. 😀
 
Why would the company agree to DOH without a court order?

Why would any pilot agree to LOA 93. I mean beside east pilot again. Are you saying that you would agree to LOA 93 as long you got DOH? I guess seniority is for sale. At least you guys are going to pay for.

How would usapa indemnify the company? What would a $8-9 billion bond cost? You know the MDA guy 300 are asking for $175 mill. You are talking 1800 west pilots for the rest of our careers. You guys know about that right. How much do you whine about giving up? what is it today 20 billion. The number keeps going up.

Yes we are made differently. We live up to our agreements and our word means something.

They just dont get it and most never will!

AWA320
 
I'm not a loophole kind of guy. I try to do the right thing every time, don't take shortcuts, don't lie and I don't reneg on agreements. I'm sure you won't believe this just as I'm sure you don't believe anything you don't want to believe but the question was worth answering.

One more thing. I can assure you that had Nicolau come out with a decision of DOH the west pilots would never have tried to pull the crap you people have. We would have sucked it up and moved on. We're just made differentlly out here.
Hey ames..do you mind if I copy this post and "post" it in the john. Your quotes give me the inspiration I need from time to time. thx
 
Failed to answer again.

If it is dismissed. What happens next? What does the company do? Do they use the agreed to arbitrated method and avoid a law suit. Or do they ignore their agreements and allow a made up seniority list?

What happens if the company says they will only use the Nicolau list because the court dismissed the case and they could not get relief? Just like voting usapa in eliminated any chance to negiotiate asking fot the dismissal may put usapa in a corner with nowhere to go.

So answer the question what if it is dismissed and the company refuses to use DOH?

Whether Silver hears the case or not, Parker already said in the last crew news (as best I recall) they were going to the Ninth. In fact, all roads lead to the Ninth eventually, and "eventually" could take a long, long time.

No court is going to tell a Labor union what they have to negotiate, and if they did it would not survive appeal.

No court is going to tell Management how and what to negotiate, much less give them a "get out of jail free" pass going into negotiations, and if they did it would not survive appeal. In fact, it is the Company that is sticking themselves out there by implying they have some sort of duty to honor internal union affairs. SCOTUS and the Ninth have historically said they have no business in internal union affairs.

No court is going to impose a condition, restriction, or contract on a Labor group without them having a vote. Heck, even in the bankruptcy they handed us the rope and made us hang ourselves. Nothing was imposed. If Parker chose to tie his wagon to Nic and Section 22, and go into a cooling off period, then it would be no different than him trying to take away (your) crew meals or half our pay. It’s a process with many twists and turns, and with few shortcuts provided by NMB…in fact the process can be endless, at least that is what one of the Judges implied during the oral arguments at the Ninth.

The company can do what they want in negotiations , and if they do so illegally (whatever that means) they can be sued.

The union can do what they want in negotiations, and if they stray from what is judged widely reasonable they can be sued (DFR) by their own members upon delivery of the ratified product.

Nobody gets a free pass from the Courts before they act. Nobody gets to sue before the knife is thrust (guess where I heard that!)

All these processes are slow as molasses. The only real thing (other than the dream of working for a company that thinks working with its employees is good business) that can change the timeline is current events. Something happens, or something is perceived as imminent that causes one side or the other to act in a way to speed the process.

It’s been said here a million times, but my upward movement, combined with our Scope language, makes me real comfortable just waiting this out. There is no upside to capitulation to Nic right now. I will just sit tight as my union continues to negotiate in good faith, continues to abide by its CBLs and use DOH with Conditions and Restrictions in Section 22 proposals, and plays out this process just as fast the government will allow. I have financially planned for a possible work action, and honestly hope it does not come to that. Maybe some unknown current event is “lurking.” I don’t really know.

Could I be richer in this job, happier, more satisfied, etc? ….you bet. But that is true in all aspects of life. I just moved from Reserve to Blockholding C/O. Nice raise, more per diem, a heck of decrease in commuting costs not having to sit reserve out of base. Based on current attrition in another 2 to 3 years I will be able to move to a Group 1 aircraft, and in another 4 or 5 to the 330. A much slower career path than I would have hoped for, but OK by me for now..yeah..OK.

Your outhouse lawyer superhero,

RR
 
Maybe you wouldn't have, and maybe I wouldn't have, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't have been taken for a ride by those that would have. Once rationalization takes place, it's hard to say what would happen.

I just happen to believe that most airline pilots are basically the same animal. I believe you can take any given airline and define people however you choose, and the percentages will break out to be the same.

If we are all such angels, why did one of our own forward web posts for usapa to use in the rico suit?

You may be right, I may be wrong. But I believe what I wrote.


Well, I believe you are correct.
 
Why would the company agree to DOH without a court order?

Why would any pilot agree to LOA 93. I mean beside east pilot again. Are you saying that you would agree to LOA 93 as long you got DOH? I guess seniority is for sale. At least you guys are going to pay for.

How would usapa indemnify the company? What would a $8-9 billion bond cost? You know the MDA guy 300 are asking for $175 mill. You are talking 1800 west pilots for the rest of our careers. You guys know about that right. How much do you whine about giving up? what is it today 20 billion. The number keeps going up.

Yes we are made differently. We live up to our agreements and our word means something.
Why would the company say they are going to China and not go? Well we said shove it to the KIRBY proposal , What are we paying ?nothing!, Why would USAPA indemnify the company? Because we can! You are really the definition of insanity, you answer your own questions and are puzzled at your own response! MM! Enjoy the train ride!
 
Whether Silver hears the case or not, Parker already said in the last crew news (as best I recall) they were going to the Ninth. In fact, all roads lead to the Ninth eventually, and "eventually" could take a long, long time.

No court is going to tell a Labor union what they have to negotiate, and if they did it would not survive appeal.

No court is going to tell Management how and what to negotiate, much less give them a "get out of jail free" pass going into negotiations, and if they did it would not survive appeal. In fact, it is the Company that is sticking themselves out there by implying they have some sort of duty to honor internal union affairs. SCOTUS and the Ninth have historically said they have no business in internal union affairs.

No court is going to impose a condition, restriction, or contract on a Labor group without them having a vote. Heck, even in the bankruptcy they handed us the rope and made us hang ourselves. Nothing was imposed. If Parker chose to tie his wagon to Nic and Section 22, and go into a cooling off period, then it would be no different than him trying to take away (your) crew meals or half our pay. It’s a process with many twists and turns, and with few shortcuts provided by NMB…in fact the process can be endless, at least that is what one of the Judges implied during the oral arguments at the Ninth.

The company can do what they want in negotiations , and if they do so illegally (whatever that means) they can be sued.

The union can do what they want in negotiations, and if they stray from what is judged widely reasonable they can be sued (DFR) by their own members upon delivery of the ratified product.

Nobody gets a free pass from the Courts before they act. Nobody gets to sue before the knife is thrust (guess where I heard that!)

All these processes are slow as molasses. The only real thing (other than the dream of working for a company that thinks working with its employees is good business) that can change the timeline is current events. Something happens, or something is perceived as imminent that causes one side or the other to act in a way to speed the process.

It’s been said here a million times, but my upward movement, combined with our Scope language, makes me real comfortable just waiting this out. There is no upside to capitulation to Nic right now. I will just sit tight as my union continues to negotiate in good faith, continues to abide by its CBLs and use DOH with Conditions and Restrictions in Section 22 proposals, and plays out this process just as fast the government will allow. I have financially planned for a possible work action, and honestly hope it does not come to that. Maybe some unknown current event is “lurking.” I don’t really know.

Could I be richer in this job, happier, more satisfied, etc? ….you bet. But that is true in all aspects of life. I just moved from Reserve to Blockholding C/O. Nice raise, more per diem, a heck of decrease in commuting costs not having to sit reserve out of base. Based on current attrition in a another 2 to 3 years I will be able to move to a Group 1 aircraft, and in another 4 or 5 to the 330. A much slower career path than I would have hoped for, but OK by me for now..yeah..OK.

Your outhouse lawyer superhero,

RR

Parker said this in the crew news and Kirby said that and its just not fair that a jr east pilot one number from furlough should be next to a west pilot one number from furlough. Its not fair its not fair its not fair Cry cry cry. Your Fear is beginning to stink up the joint, you reek of it!!!

AWA320
 
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