US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

Fear, ignorance, greed, narcissism are all apt descriptions of those who oppose the NIC. Fear that it will change the seniority position more than it actually does, which is the same as ignorance in this case. Greed because they know that DOH will propel them well beyond what their unmerged seniority number would previously hold (especially on 9/27/2005). Narcissism because they have no regard for breaking contractual obligations when it serves their own self interests while bringing damage & harm to those on the other side of the agreement.

Narcissism: from "dictionary.com":

1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.

2. Psychoanal. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

 

[No Land Green]

Well that's interesting. Why did you work for Transtates and Air Wisconsin then? Why didn't you become a lawyer? Man you picked the wrong career Yogi 😉

 

[CallawayGolf]

Narcissism: from "dictionary.com":

1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.

2. Psychoanal. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

Exactly. People who love themselves excessively are most likely to think that rules and laws do not apply to them. They are unconcerned with how their actions affect others because their self-love is so far out of balance that they are incapable of abiding by the rules of society. This description fits the USAPA faithful to a tee. Feel free to explore publications beyond Dictionary.com and substitute "East Pilots" every time you see the word "narcissist" and you will gain a true picture of what the irrational in inappropriate physiological mindset of the east is.

 

[No Land Green]

Exactly. People who love themselves excessively are most likely to think that rules and laws do not apply to them. They are unconcerned with how their actions affect others because their self-love is so far out of balance that they are incapable of abiding by the rules of society. This description fits the USAPA faithful to a tee. Feel free to explore publications beyond Dictionary.com and substitute "East Pilots" every time you see the word "narcissist" and you will gain a true picture of what the irrational in inappropriate physiological mindset of the east is.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!! And I thought you were describing Senior Management...........This Web Board is a barrel of laughs!!!!!!! Keep it coming, what a source of entertainment.

 

[ROACLT]

You know what Pi, I'm mad too but you dont see me making deals then breaking them and then have the nerve to think the its going to all be ok now that the east is happy. No matter what happens now we can never fill the same cockpits as that all has been burned up in this very unfortunate battle. If this had gone DOH we out west would have been very upset but we would have taken what we got and moved on and hoped that we didnt get burned too bad by it all.

The section you seek in the TA is the section covering our section 22 whereby the company agreed to accept the award of the neutral third party so long as it met certain guidelines. It did and the company accept that. Now usapa says "hey we in the east changed agents and we want you to toss that section of the ta while perserving others that benefot us" Doesnt work that way Pi. Now I rattle these guys cages on this forum because I can and some get really pissed but in the end I wish them no Ill will at all. I live in a family and household of lawyers and my knowledge of the law is somewhat better than the avg bear 😀 I want to see this thing end but I want it to end with the right results and thats one of honoring our agreement. Remember not one west pilot took, lied or stole anything from the east yet we are treated by the east as if we did.

AWA320
AWA320

Many of us happen to know lawyers. Like anything in life, some are better than others. I am an aquaintence of one of our ILWU attorneys and neighbor to a federal judge and two of our children are best friends. Since I started paying attention to your mess, my neighbor called the 9th's ruling, along with the motion to reconsider, en banc petition, the rule 60b joke and the motion to transfer. The Ferderal rules provide comments to the rules to aid judges in decisions and he was pretty emphatic about how it would turn out when I gave him some of the details. Granted he is a democrat and has a more liberal orientation but he was dead on. Of course, he would be the first to admit he has been wrong and had decisions overturned but in these instances I was impressed on how closely he called things. I have had less interaction with our union attorney but he shared similar thoughts.

Both of them share your union's opinion that the dicta included in the 9th's decision was meant to inform the parties of what view the court would take with a refiling of the case or a similar case were it to return to them. I am not saying he is going to be right but he certainly has called much of what occurred dead on. I am no lawyer and have never claimed to be like some on here and only relay what I consider to be valid legal opinion. The only opinions I have offered that are my own are on the nature of unions and seniority. I think you all are going to find that the Declaratory Judgement complaint filed by your company will not make it to trial because the 9th has already made clear, the union is free to bargain and there is no way a court can grant some blanket immunity for an unknown complaint without running afoul of the ripeness doctrine.

What you will probably see when the dismissals begin is dicta in those judgements that reiterate much of the 9th's opinion as well as education that any agreement may be modified, your transition agreement is a placeholder agreement until a completed single contract replaces it. The terms and conditions to complete it are between the company and the Collective Bargaining Agent and that your company owes no Duty of Fair Representation, and in large part is indemnified by the Union being the responsible party. Your own company has been emphatic the seniority is the unions deal and as long as it meets the conditions of the company to not create significant training costs, it meets the conditions of your Transition Agreement and they could care less the makeup.

 

[No Land Green]

Thanks ROACLT for your above post!!!!!!

 

[Ames]

You must have a sad social life........Glad I don't have that problem, taking a "Playboy" magazine to the bathroom...ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

My social life is just fine, thank you. As you are well aware I was responding to Mikey60 who wanted to take one of my posts to the rest room for "inspiration". But thanks, as always for adding your nonsensical spin to everything and anything. Small people.

 

[Ames]

No, I don't think it was fear, it was "I'm mad as XXXX and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

I have no idea what the courts will say, but that is why I asked you to highlight the sections of the TA that you think USAPA is violating right now and let's add to it what sections you think the company would be violating by altering section 22. I can see the union being held liable, but if you take it word for word, it seems the company has lived up to the TA, as you said they have accepted the Nic award.

The legal definition of "accept" is to receive with the intent to use. Yes, the company did accept the Nic, they are just delaying the "intent to use" as they are enjoying the savings as long as they can. If they don't use the Nic, they will be liable for breach of contract and they are well aware of this.

 

[No Land Green]

My social life is just fine, thank you. Small people. Cowards. All of you.

Ok thanks for validating your social life, I guess I won't have to get you a gift subscription for the Holiday Season. 😉

NO we are Fearful, Greedy, Ignorant and Narcissistic. 😀

 

[No Land Green]

If they don't use the Nic, they will be liable for breach of contract and they are well aware of this.

So why all the delay then? Who is in charge of the Company Parker or Cleary? If what you say is true, then why hasn't Parker told EVERY Pilot here that the NIC IS the List that will be used?

Didn't Parker say the list was in "dispute" and that there would be "no contract" until it is not?

Interesting how DAL/NWA had a JCBA before seniority was determined, CAL/UAL are doing the same, yet Parker can't do the same. In his mind the list is in "dispute", so why can't he come up with a TA for us sans section 22.........I know the ALPA spin, not to lose more dues revenue. Parker's reasons, and NOT USAPA as the reason.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Sorry, I just have to say it..... what a frigging moron.

I just have to say it....What a loser. The other poster was right. You need to get a life.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The legal definition of "accept" is to receive with the intent to use. Yes, the company did accept the Nic, they are just delaying the "intent to use" as they are enjoying the savings as long as they can. If they don't use the Nic, they will be liable for breach of contract and they are well aware of this.

That statement is as ridiculous as YOU are.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The legal definition of "accept" is to receive with the intent to use.

References? (Other than pulling it out of your ass, that is.)

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Whenever I read posts by AWA320, Ames, and some others, I just click on the link below. Then, I get it:

The West theme music

There's even a pic of a member of the AOL legal team. A bloodsucking clown.

 

[767jetz]

East vs. West was an ALPA thing. There is no East OR West to USAPA.

You just like to stir the pot.

Oh. I see. So you can't steal profit sharing from one side since there is no "other" side. Only one unified pilot group. So when USAPA showed up there was no longer an east or west. No separate ops. And everyone on one combined nic seniority list, awaiting a contract from the new collective bargaining agent. Glad to see you are accepting reality (however reluctantly).

Or is it that you selectively decide when there is no east or west (can't steal profit sharing; want pay parity; union dues; etc.), and when there is east and west (separate ops forever; lawsuits; etc.). Sounds like a familiar tune. 🙄