US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

You keep saying "west." Look around and tell me where you see a "West" bargaining agent? We did have a separate MEC, but you Angry F/Os saw to it that separate ratification and a separate bargaining representative went away. Well, you got your wish and now you're starting to see the unintended consequences of that wish. Perhaps you all should have gotten the full story from a competent attorney before launching yourselves into the Nic Abyss. Your choices are either LOA 93 ad infinitim or the Nic and an extra 3-4k a month for captains. Your choice.

First, I will say it again, I AM NOT AN ANGRY FO? Are you?

There is still a West contingent of Pilots, just as there is an East Contingent. Do you not have USAPA Reps in PHX?

What's interesting about your statements above is the message of trying to manipulate East Captains via $$$. As I said earlier, it's also about vacation and schedule too.

If this were all about the East "Angry F/Os", USAPA would not have stood a chance of getting voted in over ALPA.

 

[N924PS]

Compromise will lead to a solution. Even Kirby suggested the West should have done that. But whatever right? It appears as if neither side will negotiate.

It amazes me that you think all of this is taking place in that vacuum called USAPA.

Roll back the clock, if you will. Under ALPA, where both parties were represented, a lengthy process that included reaching a mutual solution, mediation, and finally biinding arbitration took place. Nicolau even suggested both sides reconsider their respective positions prior to his decision. The East Merger Committee stuck with the will of the East pilots, DOH.

The result was the Nicolau Award.

Roll the clock forward. East pilots vote in USAPA as a $eham inspired solution to overturning that award. Majority ruled so USAPA pulls the negotiating strings. The West CAN'T negotiate (even if they wanted to), because there is no entity under the USAPA solution for the West to do so.

USAPA believes compromise is defined by the other side giving in. Based on what I've seen, the West pilot's resolve is every bit as strong as the East. No one blinks until the court says so.

And that day is still far in the future.

 

[AWA320]

First, I will say it again, I AM NOT AN ANGRY FO? Are you?

There is still a West contingent of Pilots, just as there is an East Contingent. Do you not have USAPA Reps in PHX?

What's interesting about your statements above is the message of trying to manipulate East Captains via $$$. As I said earlier, it's also about vacation and schedule too.

If this were all about the East "Angry F/Os", USAPA would not have stood a chance of getting voted in over ALPA.

They really didnt stand a chance so usapa needed those captains. Usapa promissed during their campaign that they could deliver a contract in 90 days once elected. A benefit mind you that any east pilot/captain would be stupid to not atleast try. Now the jig is up and usapa can NOT produce. Usapa did not win that loa 93 arbitration which means those captains will now retire under industry worst LOA 93 with only the PBGC to look fwd to.

AWA320

 

[aquagreen73s]

There is still a West contingent of Pilots, just as there is an East Contingent. Do you not have USAPA Reps in PHX?

Yes, and they are officers of the single bargaining agent. They could surely "compromise," but it makes no difference whether the BPR vote is 12-0 or 9-3. You're still back to square one now that you've eliminated a separate agent that represents the West's interests. Once you removed that from the equation, you eliminated any sort of "compromise" ala Wye River. Having a couple of PHX reps that are a part of a singular MEC (or BPR or whatever you want to call it) is entirely distinct in the legal sense from a separate Local, MEC, BPR, or what have you.

What's interesting about your statements above is the message of trying to manipulate East Captains via $$$. As I said earlier, it's also about vacation and schedule too.

You misinterpret my intentions. There is no intention to manipulate anything. It's just fascination at this point. Consider it morbid curiosity to sit out here in the West and watch the dynamics on the East. You USAPA guys have fueled the East with all kinds of hopes and promises, and none have come to fruition. I'm not an expert in organizational behavior, but common sense does dictate that at some point there is a blow-back. I suspect we're close to it. You guys went all in on the LOA93 and if you don't deliver, well . . . it's going to be interesting. That is, for the purveyors of all these lofty objectives and assurances that all are attainable, it's going to be an interesting situation for them. The West will have a front row seat I guess.

Remember this:

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Upload/Seham_PHL_Badali_Highquality.mov

That's your problem. You haven't delivered on anything and all those East pilots are trudging away on LOA 93. At some point some who have supported you are going to wonder what's best for them.

 

[No Land Green]

.
The East Merger Committee stuck with the will of the East pilots, DOH.

The result was the Nicolau Award.

Roll the clock forward. East pilots vote in USAPA as a $eham inspired solution to overturning that award. Majority ruled so USAPA pulls the negotiating strings. The West CAN'T negotiate (even if they wanted to), because there is no entity under the USAPA solution for the West to do so.

USAPA believes compromise is defined by the other side giving in. Based on what I've seen, the West pilot's resolve is every bit as strong as the East. No one blinks until the court says so.

And that day is still far in the future.

Do you know what the West "Merger Committee stuck with"?

Now, your post infers that you are in need of a pay raise. Did you mess up your personal retirement plan, relying on the one that ALPA gave away?

There is always room for compromise, there was when ALPA was the CBA. But neither side will blink as you state above. We will know soon enough.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

They really didnt stand a chance so usapa needed those captains. Usapa promissed during their campaign that they could deliver a contract in 90 days once elected. A benefit mind you that any east pilot/captain would be stupid to not atleast try. Now the jig is up and usapa can NOT produce. Usapa did not win that loa 93 arbitration which means those captains will now retire under industry worst LOA 93 with only the PBGC to look fwd to.

AWA320

More lies. Didn't we just settle this? Show me where anybody PROMISED you a contact in 90 days, 6 weeks, 6 months or any particular number. Go ahead. Do it.

Don't worry, you won't be able to. Just another big "writer of fiction" from the west.

 

[No Land Green]

They really didnt stand a chance so usapa needed those captains. Usapa promissed during their campaign that they could deliver a contract in 90 days once elected. A benefit mind you that any east pilot/captain would be stupid to not atleast try. Now the jig is up and usapa can NOT produce. Usapa did not win that loa 93 arbitration which means those captains will now retire under industry worst LOA 93 with only the PBGC to look fwd to.

AWA320

320,

I never believed that there would be a contract in 90 days. I voted ALPA off because they continually degraded the industry and was endorsed by ALPA National. ALPA National does sign the very bottom of CBA's and LOA's. A quick fix was never envisioned by myself.

In fact no matter the end result here, I never want to see ALPA on the property.

 

[aquagreen73s]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YY4JOeFvXU&feature=related

 

[No Land Green]

Yes, and they are officers of the single bargaining agent. They could surely "compromise," but it makes no difference whether the BPR vote is 12-0 or 9-3. You're still back to square one now that you've eliminated a separate agent that represents the West's interests. Once you removed that from the equation, you eliminated any sort of "compromise" ala Wye River. Having a couple of PHX reps that are a part of a singular MEC (or BPR or whatever you want to call it) is entirely distinct in the legal sense from a separate Local, MEC, BPR, or what have you.

I talked with one of the East Wye River participants. He told me there was no compromise on the part of the West. Without compromise, it will be all or nothing for both sides.


I agree that with your other sentiments above in regards to BPR votes.


IMHO, the biggest mistake was not giving guys credit for active service in some capacity. There are sane minds on the East side, but there has to be give in order to take, for both sides.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

This man can get those 500 pilots marching! MM! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG83596C_GY

 

[aquagreen73s]

"USAPA is the quickest way to a contract . . . "

says the Angry F/O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA3UrDjT2jc&feature=related

 

[No Land Green]

You misinterpret my intentions. There is no intention to manipulate anything. It's just fascination at this point. Consider it morbid curiosity to sit out here in the West and watch the dynamics on the East. You USAPA guys have fueled the East with all kinds of hopes and promises, and none have come to fruition. I'm not an expert in organizational behavior, but common sense does dictate that at some point there is a blow-back. I suspect we're close to it. You guys went all in on the LOA93 and if you don't deliver, well . . . it's going to be interesting. That is, for the purveyors of all these lofty objectives and assurances that all are attainable, it's going to be an interesting situation for them. The West will have a front row seat I guess.

Remember this:

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Upload/Seham_PHL_Badali_Highquality.mov

That's your problem. You haven't delivered on anything and all those East pilots are trudging away on LOA 93. At some point some who have supported you are going to wonder what's best for them.

Sorry about the dual reply Aqua, but i haven't figured out how to dual quote in the reply mode.

Yeah "organizational behavior", management is loving this one, both sides of the Mississippi LMAO.

Honestly, I think it is in the interest of ALL LCC Pilot's that this gets won by USAPA. It will benefit all of us if we can get those rates for ALL LCC Pilot's. I don't see it as an East Wild Goose Chase.

Lofty Objectives is what we should be aiming for, especially when our CEO has "lofty" pay and compensation.

 

[aquagreen73s]

"Doug Parker wants a deal . . . " said the Angry F/O.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6YliSVV6Y&feature=related

 

[No Land Green]

"USAPA is the quickest way to a contract . . . "

says the Angry F/O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA3UrDjT2jc&feature=related

You could substitute ALPA above too. With each side having to ratify separately a JCBA, do you think we would have a contract today? If we did, would it be industry leading or a "live to fight another day" contract just so Section 22 is cast in stone and keep ALPA National collecting $11 Million a year in dues revenue?

 

[N924PS]

Now, your post infers that you are in need of a pay raise. Did you mess up your personal retirement plan, relying on the one that ALPA gave away?

I'm not quite sure how you came up with that inference from my post, but I will acknowledge that I am in need of a pay raise.
Aren't you? Does your static income of LOA 93 pay buy as much as it did in 2004 when it took effect?

Luckily, we have always saved in our household and retirement will be manageable and modest. It won't be the same retirement a peer with over 30 years at American Airlines will enjoy, but hey, as many of you like to quip, "it's only money."