US Pilots Labor Discussion

[skinvalve]

ALB BTV BUF BWI CLE CMH CVG DEN DTW EWR IAH IND JAX JFK MIA MDT ORF PVD ROC ROA SDF STL SYR RIC SNA UCA. Maintenance stations closed over the years both pre and post US/HP.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Successful or not USAPA is trying to get to the bottom of why our PBGC account was managed so recklessly. If some increase in monetary relief is awarded it will help all pilots. I for one don't need too much more to say goodbye to this sub standard operation. USAPA is also calling attention to safety. Isn't that a good thing... 80% of all write ups occur in MTC bases, is that a job action or misguided cooperation? I don't get the earn the trust part. Is that a two way street or a blind alley?

So USAPA doesn’t have to be successful, they just have to keep up appearances of doing something to earn your trust? Symbolism over substance; promises without results. That’s not how I evaluate leaders or organizations. My support and trust isn’t awarded just because some slick-talking narcissist tells me he feels my pain; rather I expect results and a continued logic-based effort towards a successful outcome if my support and trust is going to be offered.

Safety is a good thing which is why it should never be used as a political negotiating tool. However, because USAPA hasn’t proven themselves trustworthy to anyone outside of their faithful supporters, they aren’t taken seriously even if there was a real safety issue or cultural problem going on. For example, no one on either side of the political aisle or in any developed nation trusted that Saddam Hussein was being truthful that he no longer possessed chemical/biological weapons in 2002. He used them on his own citizens in years past and he could never be trusted to tell the truth. So, when the time came for him to prove that his stock piles of weapons had been destroyed, the veracity of his claims could not be trusted without independent verification. Thus, the liar and murderer lost his country and his life because he failed to demonstrate that he could be trusted at his word.

The same holds true for USAPA, until they prove that they exist to represent all US pilots and genuinely desire to move the JCBA process forward without playing self-serving games and making a mockery of the organized labor processes, they will be distrusted by west pilots, Management, and I would suspect the courts and arbitrators they encounter along the way as well. USAPA’s conduct is pathological and deplorable with regards to the SLI process and that immediately taints any trustworthiness they would expect on any and all other issues. I wouldn’t trust a drug addict with my medicine cabinet; I wouldn’t trust a rapist to come within 50 feet of my wife and daughter; I wouldn’t trust Mike Cleary to watch my sandwich while I went to get a drink refill while I was in CLT; and I wouldn’t trust USAPA to take any unbiased action in its relationship with the west pilots or with Management.

West pilots are under no obligation to earn the trust of USAPA. It’s not a two-way street. USAPA, not a west pilot, is charged with fairly representing all pilots – east/west, members/nonmembers – without prejudice or bias. That is the law and they must comply with the same. West pilots have no legal or moral obligation to support or trust an organization that gives every indication that it holds them in contempt and prefers to act in malice against them rather than representing them fairly. They get no sympathy from me and I doubt they will get any from more than a handful of west pilots – if that.

That says nothing of their sophomoric stupidity of taking out USA Today ads or calling for the firing of the VP of Safety at US Airways. Those actions are beyond stupid and only demonstrate how far from a respectable and professional organization USAPA really is. Only a truly powerless organization would engage in such acts of impotent desperation.

 

[Black Swan]

ALB BTV BUF BWI CLE CMH CVG DEN DTW EWR IAH IND JAX JFK MIA MDT ORF PVD ROC ROA SDF STL SYR RIC SNA UCA. Maintenance stations closed over the years both pre and post US/HP.

Seems like pilots were carrying items if that 80% statistic is correct. I think things are changing. All for the better.

 

[Black Swan]

Mike Cleary is a clear and present danger to nobody but ALL the pilots of US AIRWAYS. He's an unbalanced kook that needs professional psychiatric help.

Mike is a great guy. You need to get to know him better.........

 

[Pi brat]

I believe you guys all thought that flows were a safety issue. Even though almost every other airline uses them. You guys thought that Cactus call sign was a safety issue. So far not a single airplane has had an accident.

We did? Newsflash-we were doing flows before the merger. We just had more checklists to back them up.

I was one that didn't think the call sign was a big deal. It just never occurred to me that they would use cactus with the old US id strip, or whatever it was that caused so much trouble. That caused a high altitude RA for me over Mexico when ATC couldn't figure out who we were on day 1 of the change over!

Is not having an accident what determines if something is safe to you? Do you think about the margins? If your child manages to text and drive and has not had an accident yet, do you say "Well there ya go! What was I so worried about? Go right ahead dear."

 

[Pi brat]

Staffing the security committe has nothing to be with DOH. YET!!!! The BPR voted to throw the single west member off because of AOL and his not supporting DOH. Just like they threw off a west HIMMS member. Does HIMMS have anything to do with DOH? Just like they threw off the single P4P west member.

The PIC does that have anything to do with west pilots? No so it is a use of union resources that only could benefit east pilots.

1549 investigation. How many west pilots are allowed on the accident investigation committee? ASAP! I believe it was usapa that stopped the ASAP program in the beginning leaving all of us exposed until they pulled their heads out.

Everything thing this association does is about or because of DOH. That is the driving force in every decision. When the BPR voted to go to the new office it was Cleary that turned into a DOH fight. I spoke to my rep and he said that Cleary sent an e-mail accusing the BPR members that voted to go to the new place of being against Cleary so they were against the union which meant they were against DOH.

You better check around. It is usapa that makes every decision about DOH not the west.

Were you there for all of those events? Are you sure it wasn't the west pilot making it about DOH? Why did they ever put them on to start with fi they didn't want the west to have input? And, how many west pilots said they would never have anything to do with USAPA? So you really don't want anything to do with it, but you want it your way.

About the pension investigation, a few questions. How much did you lose when the east pension was terminated? How much are you being assessed to pay for the investigation? If there was REALLY, REALLY big issue that was west only, would you support not following the will of the pilots, since it wouldn't it wouldn't affect us?

 

[Black Swan]

We did? Newsflash-we were doing flows before the merger. We just had more checklists to back them up.

I was one that didn't think the call sign was a big deal. It just never occurred to me that they would use cactus with the old US id strip, or whatever it was that caused so much trouble. That caused a high altitude RA for me over Mexico when ATC couldn't figure out who we were on day 1 of the change over!

Is not having an accident what determines if something is safe to you? Do you think about the margins? If your child manages to text and drive and has not had an accident yet, do you say "Well there ya go! What was I so worried about? Go right ahead dear."

Come on PI! You have got to have Clear figured by now. The song "Somethings Always Wrong" always comes to mind when I see her posts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp1ZGW9MdbI

 

[Pi brat]

The ones that get fired might.

If they completed their DL, should they get fired?

 

[traderjake]

If they completed their DL, should they get fired?

The rank and file who didn't complete their DL might care if they don't get their jobs back.

 

[Pi brat]

Come on PI! You have got to have Clear figured by now. The song "Somethings Always Wrong" always comes to mind when I see her posts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp1ZGW9MdbI

Angriest of the AF/Os? When do those club nominations come out? Do you have to be a member to nominate?

 

[Pi brat]

The rank and file who didn't complete their DL might care if they don't get their jobs back.

I guess so, but that's not what I asked.

I never saw or heard the call about DL, but did anyone suggest that pilots not complete it, or did they suggest just delaying?

 

[Black Swan]

The rank and file who didn't complete their DL might care if they don't get their jobs back.

Look at the percentages of those who forget , or are on vacation when the DL closes and don't finish. There are numbers.They were never fired in the past. The company is going to "fire" them, but pay them full pay, just like the Cactushackers. That way, there is no way they can sue when they are re instated. They will get full pay. There will be no "harm" for the lawsuit. This is disparate treatment, and the company knows it. They should have the summer of their lives, if they get it figured out. They will be back, and with full pay. There is no way the firings will stick with the distance learners.

 

[Pi brat]

Look at the percentages of those who forget , or are on vacation when the DL closes and don't finish. There are numbers.They were never fired in the past. The company is going to "fire" them, but pay them full pay, just like the Cactushackers. That way, there is no way they can sue when they are re instated. They will get full pay. There will be no "harm" for the lawsuit. This is disparate treatment, and the company knows it. They should have the summer of their lives, if they get it figured out. They will be back, and with full pay. There is no way the firings will stick with the distance learners.

Isn't the new standard to suspend with pay until an investigation is complete?

I mean, a ACP gives a US document to an LCC and get suspended WITH pay, but a forgetful pilot gets caught up in someone's hair brained idea, gets fired and spends a couple of years getting there job back? Hmmm.............

 

[Pi brat]

Did I say it or did it I think it that the company should get rid of the various lanyards and badge backers? Looks like Mr. Isom agrees, check you inbox.

AOL will have to look for other means of peer pressures as all that plastic will soon be relegated to the scrapbook. Or ebay.

 

[traderjake]

There is no way the firings will stick with the distance learners.

For the sake of their families I hope you're right.

The FOM clearly states that we are required to maintain our qualification.

Maybe you didn't hear about a concerted plan not to do the DL but Hogg did because I got a crewmail warning from him.

Anyone who participates in an illegal job action should be fired.

There are legal ways to pressure the company but guys won't put there money where their mouth is.