US Pilots Labor Discussion

[signals]

Amazing how someone can type so much and say so little.

It sounds like you have an inferiority complex and a pretty acute oneat that.

I'm just an average west guy who has seen a ton of this union stuff. It's called life experience. Once you get out of HS, you'll understand.

P.S. How did you do on your science test?

All I can say is that you have an uncanny love for yourself. Yeah you have me figured out alright. Me? I've only been in various unions the past 29 years of my work history. But why bore you with such nonsense that isn't about you 😛

 

[CallawayGolf]

I dont where you have been for the past seven years, but the US/HP merger is not complete.

The FAs and Pilots are not combined and neither is the fleet.

You can blame the woefully inept RLA and NMB board for allowing the east pilots to drag this process out for as long as it has with still no end date in sight. Read the posts on this board and look at the most recent representational election to see if the east pilots even want a JCBA. Clearly they don't or they would drop the NIC redo fantasy and move on. The NMB parked negotiations because there was zero benefit to continuing to meet when Management says anything but the NIC is a DFR that exposes both the union and the Company to significant legal risk, but USAPA maintains the untenable position that they are free to present any seniority list they like in direct defiance to the DFR provisions and the collective bargaining agreement known as the TA.

The FAs just rejected the TA negotiated and presented by their own leadership. This was the first chance they had to complete the integration and get off the bankruptcy contracts they have had and they decided the grass will be greener down the road. No telling if they are right, but if they didn't remain coupled to the intransigent pilots for five years, they would have been much further along in this process by now.

The capital investment community knows this and they are obviously lining up behind Parker again to put the best presentation to the UCC so as to make the case for a merger. Accepted or rejected, you can bet that the Parker/Kirby proposal will make a compelling case for bringing the last two big merger partners together and they will have the promised cash to make the deal work. Furthermore, unlike DL, Horton is playing into Parker's hand by showing that AA's stand alone exit plan will be worse for labor than what Parker will present. I think the odds are high that the US/AA merger deal will get done.

 

[Move2CLT]

The merger is not complete, the whole industry knows.

Look at DL/NW thats a complete merger, intermixed pmdl and pmnw crews and planes.

Can east and west pilots and FAs fly together?

NO.

Can the East Pilots and East FAs fly a West A/C and vice versa?

NO.

Therefore the merger is not complete.

If an East plane breaks can they swap it out with a West plane and vice versa?

NO.

Case closed, your wrong.

No 700, you're just naive.

How has not having the ability to intermix crews hurt our operation? It hasn't. Scheduling computers and algorithms have the ability to work around two lists and optimize ops like never before. Even from a decade ago.

And if it was costing him, you can bet it would have been fixed by now.

So please. Quit pouting and start looking at things from a business perspective instead of as an emotional union employee.

This merger is done and has been for a while. The next one won't need you to go through.

We're making money, the Street is happy and so are the stock holders. In this reality, that's all hat matters.

Now go stomp a foot and run away.

 

[Move2CLT]

Perfect! Lets turn the pilot forum into a roadrunner/coyote cartoon

Maybe it'll make the moderators close this bus wheel down

Seriously, what the hell are you trying to say.

You're babbling incessantly now.

And EMOTICONS ARE NOT PUNCTUATION.

 

[signals]

Seriously, what the hell are you trying to say.

You're babbling incessantly now.

And EMOTICONS ARE NOT PUNCTUATION.

Beep-beep 😛 😛 😛 😛

 

[Freighterguynow]

have any say in this. We are in this for the ride - nothing more.

So with AA needing this merger, the creditors behind Parker, Wall Street willing to give Parker the money he needs (I've heard he already has it), labor trying to avoid 1113c and they hate Horton, and Parker in it partially for the hubris and the triumphant return to AA, I think you have all your ducks in a row for a merger.

You USAPA cheerleaders can yell as loudly as you want. Your union's days are swiftly coming to an end. You can bet your butts that Hummel didn't come out here to Tempe to sample the weather. Parker sat him down and talked merger with him.

And all without the approval of the BPR. 😱

You forgot to add - nobody needs a hub in PHX

 

[767one]

Amazing how someone can type so much and say so little.

It sounds like you have an inferiority complex and a pretty acute oneat that.

I'm just an average west guy who has seen a ton of this union stuff. It's called life experience. Once you get out of HS, you'll understand. And 4000 +s means posters here like what I have to say.

P.S. How did you do on your science test?

Just curious is there a way to know whether there have been 4,000 different posters giving you the +'s or just the 4,0000 pluses?

 

[Phoenix]

Just curious is there a way to know whether there have been 4,000 different posters giving you the +'s or just the 4,0000 pluses?

Half of them are self-plussed and the others are from 5 accounts that he uses only for plusses.

 

[signals]

In case you don't know, you can + yourself

 

[luvthe9]

Half of them are self-plussed and the others are from 5 accounts that he uses only for plusses.

U Haul likes to rate herself to the max. beep beep!

 

[Freighterguynow]

Sure I willl say "it"....I'll say "it" right now.

The newhires are in the precarious position

You fly 24% of your block hours on someone else's routes. I'm sure the new hires sleep soundy.

 

[EastCheats]

You fly 24% of your block hours on someone else's routes. I'm sure the new hires sleep soundy.

Howdy angry Flap Operator. You get those resumes polished up yet? American is not coming to the rescue. They want nothing to do with us. So, what is your plan B? I just gave Duke on the AA forum a history lesson on what we have been dealing with since 1800 angry FO's were recalled.

Duke,

Where do I start? There are 4600 pages on the US Airways forum, pilot thread. There was an arbitration to settle the seniority dispute a list was produced and accepted by the company. A union was formed by the East pilot group to evade an agreement made while both pilot groups were repensented by ALPA. There was a trial, (because a union was formed that does not fairly represent a third of the pilot group) a jury found in favor of the West pilot class. It was appealed, the 9th Circuit said we recognize the West pilot group has a gun pointed at your head, bring the case back when you have a body. We already have West pilots furloughed who were actively flying prior to the acquistion in 2005. 1800 East pilots furloughed at that tiime were recalled. We refer to them as angry FO's. They had career expectations and plenty of time to think about these expectations as they sat on the sidelines while their airline crumbled under bankruptcy.

Here comes Doug Parker and America West Holdings to the rescue. Some marketing wiz thought that keeping the name US Airways was a great idea. East propaganda will have you think just because US Airways is on the side of the aircraft, they bought America West and moved the HQ to Tempe. Bunk...

It is very hard for some employees of a so-called legacy carrier to digest that a 23-year old company at that time bought their ass-ets. Correction, liabilies. Back to AA, these US Airways merger, Legacy wanna be merger cheerleaders know that US Air was a collection of regional airlines. They are like the little kid wanting to be like big brother. A real major carrier, not a airline with a weak European route structure at best.

All this merger talk is just that, talk. I wish AA employees the best on working through your problems, not further complication by adding US to the mix.

 

[Phoenix]

Howdy angry Flap Operator. You get those resumes polished up yet? American is not coming to the rescue. They want nothing to do with us. So, what is your plan B? I just gave Duke on the AA forum a history lesson on what we have been dealing with since 1800 angry FO's were recalled.

Duke,

Where do I start? There are 4600 pages on the US Airways forum, pilot thread. There was an arbitration to settle the seniority dispute a list was produced and accepted by the company. A union was formed by the East pilot group to evade an agreement made while both pilot groups were repensented by ALPA. There was a trial, (because a union was formed that does not fairly represent a third of the pilot group) a jury found in favor of the West pilot class. It was appealed, the 9th Circuit said we recognize the West pilot group has a gun pointed at your head, bring the case back when you have a body. We already have West pilots furloughed who were actively flying prior to the acquistion in 2005. 1800 East pilots furloughed at that tiime were recalled. We refer to them as angry FO's. They had career expectations and plenty of time to think about these expectations as they sat on the sidelines while their airline crumbled under bankruptcy.

Here comes Doug Parker and America West Holdings to the rescue. Some marketing wiz thought that keeping the name US Airways was a great idea. East propaganda will have you think just because US Airways is on the side of the aircraft, they bought America West and moved the HQ to Tempe. Bunk...

It is very had for some employees of a so-called legacy carrier to digest that a 23-year old company at that time bought their ass-ets. Correction, liabilies. Back to AA, these US Airways merger, Legacy wanna be merger cheerleaders know that US Air was a collection of regional airlines. They are like the little kid wanting to be like big brother. A real major carrier, not a airline with a weak European route structure at best.

All this merger talk is just that, talk. I wish AA employees the best on working through your problems, not further complication by adding US to the mix.

Who do you see as the angry FO, and airline-wanna-be club?

 

[USA320Pilot]

You fly 24% of your block hours on someone else's routes. I'm sure the new hires sleep soundy.

The comment above is is an valid statement for a number of reasons.

1. The Transition Agreement (TA) provides East and West minimum hulls and block hours.

2. Management has the right to fly those block hours wherever they desire under a common federal government authorized operating certificate.

3. When US Airways reduced PIT and BOS ASMs; along with LAS ASMs, to comply with the TA US Airways' crew pairings that originate in CLT and PHL increased international flying with Boeing and Airbus aircraft while having B737 flying reduced. CLT/DCA flying obtained more widebody flying/IRO jobs. US Airways' crew pairings based in LAS were transferred to PHX. To comply with the TA and to keep pre-merger flying based East of the Mississippi River flown on the mainline crews based in PHX picked up some of the pre-merger Eat Coast-based B737 flying.

The 24% block hour comment is another USAPA statement to divert attention and create distraction. No pilot group owns block hours. Management can pick and choose where they want to fly, which is Andrew Norcella's job. The important point is that the US Airways and Ameirca WEst Pilot's Section of the TA regarding minimum hulls/minimum block hours has been maintained.

Finally, we are one company and an individual trying to personally benefit at somebody else's expense is simply being selfish.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Howdy angry Flap Operator. You get those resumes polished up yet? American is not coming to the rescue. They want nothing to do with us. So, what is your plan B? I just gave Duke on the AA forum a history lesson on what we have been dealing with since 1800 angry FO's were recalled.


[/quote

I guess Duke won't get a preferential interview then. 1800 angry f/o s and 1100 West migs - suck on that.




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