US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

Are you suggesting that the West pilots should follow the unethical ways of their management?

I'm only suggesting that once again you're wrong - there are times that it's possible to have it both ways...

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Jim,

Are you suggesting that the West pilots should follow the unethical ways of their management?

And people can't understand why the East pilots are bitter and hard to get along with.

breeze

See breeze, according to one of your own you can't even get along with each other. It has nothing to do with management. You east guys are just straight up a%<{%|s.

From Eric Jordan's endorsement of Jamie Wiedner:


Last month I publicized my reasons for resigning from the BPR. Never have I witnessed an organization so dysfunctional with self-serving lies, distortions, threats, and the use of fear tactics. Thankfully, the officers that spearheaded those tactics will soon be gone as a result of your vote, but to give our newly elected officers the opportunity to accomplish what you so overwhelmingly appointed them to do, they need a BPR willing to listen, consider, and debate openly and fairly the issues we are facing. Our company has publicly stated they are “optimistic” and “look forward to working with USAPA’s new leadership team.” Give that team the tools they need to get our careers back on track. I saw from the inside what a "fighter" mentality will accomplish... absolutely nothing except turmoil, name calling and the continued complete stagnation of our careers. 

 

[mrbreeze]

I'm only suggesting that once again you're wrong - there are times that it's possible to have it both ways...

Jim

OK

 

[Pi brat]

So Pi, no you can clearly see why there is no negs with the east. This kind of douchebaggery has been non-stop from the east since the merger was announced. It's typical east crap.

Let's start with some facts:

Dave Tobin, on of the guys protesting the Appeals Board election, was a 2012 candidate himself.

Dave Tobin was USAPAs Ballot Certification Committee Chairman in 2009.

Dave Tobin certified the following results in 2009:

Appeal Board (please select three)
Total % of Total Votes
Stephen Bradford – (WINNER) 1630 28.07
Mark King – (WINNER) 1274 21.94
Tracy Lynn Parrella – (WINNER) 937 16.14
Mike Turpen 621 10.70
Paul DiOrio 635 10.94
Capt. Mike Martin 709 12.21
Total 5806​

As most of you may notice (someone please help luv9 before he hurts himself), Tobin declared the sitting AB members winners with all having less than 50% of the vote.

Why was it OK then and not now? Because the west won the vote. Nothing more.

I have absolute confidence this AB election will not be run as an injunction will be in place before that's allowed to happen. My only question is if the Dept of Labor will force USAPA to allow them to take their positions while the lawsuit goes through.

The east - its only fair if it's in our favor.

If you would shut up for a little while, or at least take notes, then you would know that I have said before that I understand why the west pilots are upset and on a lot of issues I agree with them. It is you type of constant diarrhea of the mouth that I have an issue with. I think you enjoy this and don't want resolution.

As for the Appeal Board issue, I've tried to figure out what is going on, and here is what my limited legal/political mind can come up with:

-The C&BLs don't differentiate between Pres., VP or Appeal Board.
-They call for 50%+1, or runoff.
-In the previous election, they didn't follow this, but no one filed a complaint so the election stood
-For this election, several pilots did file complaints so the AB had to answer.
-I agree with you assessment of TP's dissent, but agree that the declared winners should take office until the final outcome is determined.

So, what to do? Follow the C&BLs, or past practice? I don't know, but the politics are evident and I don't like it. I only voted for Vasin, but if we rerun it, I will vote for all the winners.

More B.S. while bigger issues are looming.

 

[EastCheats]

See breeze, according to one of your own you can't even get along with each other. It has nothing to do with management. You east guys are just straight up a%<{%|s.

From Eric Jordan's endorsement of Jamie Wiedner:


Last month I publicized my reasons for resigning from the BPR. Never have I witnessed an organization so dysfunctional with self-serving lies, distortions, threats, and the use of fear tactics.  

I guess the light finally came on months after the attack on Streble. It is only a matter of time before more unorganized criminal activity is exposed. Streble got my vote for standing up to the bully who tried pushing him around. Reality TV needs to drop Snooky and the Jersey crowd. Nothing like watching a good Pickelball fight. :blink:

 

[Move2CLT]

So, what to do? Follow the C&BLs, or past practice? I don't know, but the politics are evident and I don't like it. I only voted for Vasin, but if we rerun it, I will vote for all the winners.

Once again, it'll be up to a third party to figure it out for you and hopefully they'll attach some punitive damages to this which, in these cases, are allowed.

And as for shutting up and taking notes, you need to take your own advice. Lumping us in with your collective stupidity whe you just admitted to the crap that comes from your side proves your either oblivious to your own words or just plain east-like.

And you're right, bigger issues are looming and this is what you east guys focus on instead. You guys shouldn't allow yourselves to control your own destiny. You'd think you'd have figured that out by now.

 

[Pi brat]

. Lumping us in with your collective stupidity whe you just admitted to the crap that comes from your side proves your either oblivious to your own words or just plain east-like.

There has been plenty of crap from the east for the last 23 years. You guys should have learned, but you just joined right in. YOU have done absolutely NOTHING to change things.

 

[Move2CLT]

There has been plenty of crap from the east for the last 23 years. You guys should have learned, but you just joined right in. YOU have done absolutely NOTHING to change things.

It's because we're too busy defending ourselves against your crap. Take that DOH cramdown attempt or that final and binding arbitration you guys like to ignore. How about that "fight to the death" thing Music is so bent on.

And when we try to do the right thing, you guys change the rules. We try to get involved and you promptly overturn the election.

What is it you're looking for here Pi? Even you sound disgusted with this crap and these are your pilots. Imagine where we stand.

 

[Move2CLT]

-The C&BLs don't differentiate between Pres., VP or Appeal Board.
-They call for 50%+1, or runoff.
-In the previous election, they didn't follow this, but no one filed a complaint so the election stood
-For this election, several pilots did file complaints so the AB had to answer.
-I agree with you assessment of TP's dissent, but agree that the declared winners should take office until the final outcome is determined.

Tobin was the Chairman of the BCC in 2009. He had no issue with the methodology used to determine the winners back then and yet now hehasissues with it. So here you have a guy that certified the results three years ago now basically stating that he was wrong.

It would have be smarter if Tobin wasn't one of the four that filed an appeal but smart and USAPA isn't something that usually goes hand in hand.

He sure is a sore loser.

 

[mrbreeze]

Tobin was the Chairman of the BCC in 2009. He had no issue with the methodology used to determine the winners back then and yet now hehasissues with it. So here you have a guy that certified the results three years ago now basically stating that he was wrong.

It would have be smarter if Tobin wasn't one of the four that filed an appeal but smart and USAPA isn't something that usually goes hand in hand.

He sure is a sore loser.

LOL...that's funny. Look in the mirror, sore loser.

As Pi said, no one contested the results until now, but you choose to overlook that part, since it doesn't fit in with your merger dream, just like all the rest of the stuff that you don't like.

Move, not to pick on you, but that is the basic problem between the East and West....each group will only listen to what they want to hear.

breeze

 

[Pi brat]

It's because we're too busy defending ourselves against your crap. Take that DOH cramdown attempt or that final and binding arbitration you guys like to ignore. How about that "fight to the death" thing Music is so bent on.

And when we try to do the right thing, you guys change the rules. We try to get involved and you promptly overturn the election.

What is it you're looking for here Pi? Even you sound disgusted with this crap and these are your pilots. Imagine where we stand.

Yeah, I'm disgusted with the whole damn thing. Like I said a few pages back, we are the stupidest pilot group in history. Fighting tooth and nail over crap like this while the wave is coming.

It's politics. Just like when I spent a ton of time and effort fighting for the C18 only to have the then PHX rep tell me to just drop it.

 

[Move2CLT]

LOL...that's funny. Look in the mirror, sore loser.

As Pi said, no one contested the results until now, but you choose to overlook that part, since it doesn't fit in with your merger dream, just like all the rest of the stuff that you don't like.

Move, not to pick on you, but that is the basic problem between the East and West....each group will only listen to what they want to hear.

breeze

Sore loser? How do you mean breeze?

And why is it Tobin is contesting his own methodology?

The west tries to work within the union structure only to have crap like this come up.

Why don't you step back a bit and read Pi's posts. He's getting it because he sees USAPA for what it is. Maybe if you'd put away your hate and notice that you've lost every legal battle you've waged you might see just how badly off you are now.

The basic problem is that you easties think youre right and everyone else is wrong. Take the MDA arbitration - you didn't like the ruling, and now you're suing.

You don't see a pattern here?

Did you not get Jordan's letter?

News flash breeze - its all you. You just like to include us in your blame game because we didn't give you the mulligan. Guess what, weren't obliged to and doing so would have just enabled you to go after more.

 

[traderjake]

Yeah, I'm disgusted with the whole damn thing. Like I said a few pages back, we are the stupidest pilot group in history. Fighting tooth and nail over crap like this while the wave is coming.

Serious question, what's the solution?

It don't see any and I think USAPA will blow any advantage a merger with American might present.

 

[crazystnic]

For the past 27+ years I have fought the dishonesty and lack of character of the East Union Leader Hardliners, RC4, RC4/5, UELs, CCC, FOCKers, and now USAPA Lite. The relentless thirst of these men and women for power, greed, personal gain, and control of the union has been the most damaging series of events in the US Airways East pilot's history, maybe in the entire airline industry.

The decision to twice not freeze the DB Plan when offered to do so by management, using over 50 "roll call" votes against the advice of every MEC financial and legal advisor to become the first union in the history of aviation to provide its members a concession greater than the "ask", going against George Nicolau's recommendation that delivered the Nicolau Award, forming USAPA with its implicit goal of breaking a promise and violating the pilot's contract in an attempt to staple virtually every West pilot to the bottom of the joint seniority list, and now changing campaign rules to prevent West pilots from having fairly elected Appeals Board positions smacks in the face of character and campaign fraud.

The US Airways Pilot's Union is a sham, which is why US Airways EVP Steve Johsnon poor mouthed USAPA to hundreds of US Airways Managers and Check Airman at this year's Leadership Conference.

I sure hope you are a non member....

 

[luvthe9]

Once again, it'll be up to a third party to figure it out for you and hopefully they'll attach some punitive damages to this which, in these cases, are allowed.

And as for shutting up and taking notes, you need to take your own advice. Lumping us in with your collective stupidity whe you just admitted to the crap that comes from your side proves your either oblivious to your own words or just plain east-like.

And you're right, bigger issues are looming and this is what you east guys focus on instead. You guys shouldn't allow yourselves to control your own destiny. You'd think you'd have figured that out by now.

Bigger issues is right. Unfortunately another merger is coming. The only good thing is Nic will never be consummated in time in a contract. Also, Parker has a nice hole card with the West lack of scope and separate ops. Who knows, you guys might get lucky and get Jetblued.....or Frontiered