US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Ames]

My best guess is she will rule in June. It would have been sooner except usapa insisted on 15 more pages in March. Still don't see what that extra $10,000.00 did for anyone but delay.

Maybe you can point out to us what was so critical in the last filing from usapa that the judge needed to know. what did usapa say that they had not said in the previous filings? Other than the delay what did those last 15 pages do for any of us?

C'mon, clear. You're a smart guy. The WHOLE purpose of everything the east does is to delay. They know they will eventually lose but delay is the goal and in doing so they have achieved it. Do the math. Ten grand for a two month delay. A bargain. Works out to 60K/year (which the west contributes +/- 20K). Many of us are still furloughed or downgraded on the west and the east is upgrading and hiring due to the delay they accomplished. The west will eventually win the war but the east is garnishing all they can until that time.

That, my friend, is why the west is all in until the end.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Nope. Meeting your mother. She's says your dinner is in the freezer and she'll iron your work shirts tomorrow after I'm done with her.

You know I'm getting real tired of you. I bet you would never tell him that in person.

Harry

 

[Pi brat]

You do have access to the filings. You sure have expressed many opinions. You are capable of reading.

What in those 15 pages was so important to tell the judge that usapa had not said in hundreds of pages and oral arguments before? It is your dues money being spent. Do you care? Was it wasted?

Cleary now after spending whatever it took in the Addington case is suing Seham because he says Seham overcharged us. Could it be that the new law firm overcharged us by filing excessive paperwork? You guys never question this stuff.

So I am asking in your opinion what was so critical in those 15 pages that delayed the decision at least a month and cost several thousand dollars?

You originally said that maybe I could point you in the direction of why, and I cannot. If you want my opinion, well then I can guess that it is a matter of throwing everything at the wall, hoping something will stick. Just as the west did by throwing in the officer election results that were really pretty much straight east/west.

I question plenty, and usually get answers. A lot I disagree with, so I realize it has to run it's course.

 

[luvn737s]

Remember, the pilots and their furloughs are part of the reason you are employed today!

How do you figure someone being told not to show up for work contributes anything? No, the furloughed pilots paid the price for their (and their fellow more senior pilot's) unwillingness to adapt to a changing industry and adopt pay and work rules in line with that industry. The reason the furloughed east pilots are back at work is because a successful airline was able to come in and finance a second try at evolution for them. The reason the west pilots are still on furlough is because the entire pilot group is too timid to eradicate USAPA and replace it with a union that will work to represent all US pilots.

 

[crazystnic]

Once again projection at it's finest. It is you east guys that are all hyped up about attrition and the left seat.

IF what you say were true. Explain why all the west captains that are already in the left seat are supporting the Nicolau? Could it be because they don't want east furloughed pilots being senior to them? Could it be because DOH screws the west captains as much as the west F/O's?

You guys need to get your head right. AA is going to love dealing with you guys. They have learned that you can't be trusted to stick to a deal. They will write the T/A very tight. They have way more money and way better lawyers to beat you with.

Heck the little self funded west group has beaten you guys for 4 years. How do you think it is going to work out with APA collecting dues from the east and funding law suits?

It is you east F/O's wanting the left seat. At least admit your own desires and stop projecting.

CR,s say I can't have that west capt seat. I'm ok with you re writing them if you don't think they are right. Bottom line as I said. We want nothing of yours. Just let our guys take our capt seat openings as they become available. You keep twisting this into something we want that is not true

 

[EastUS1]

"To be, or not to be... ...Be all my (your) sins remembered". - Bill -

Honor is like an island, rugged and without shores; we can never re-enter it once we are on the outside. (Nicolas Boileau)

I live in a glass house, but this issue is not dead. Your honor may be tarnished, but you could always say, "It just took me a while to do the right thing...", and possibly regain some modicum of self-respect. For someone of your apparent intellect, your deceit, lack of integrity, empathy and remorse, clearly exhibit a "personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others and the rules of society", an easy diagnosis.

Wow! Many thanks! You've relieved me of an enormous spiritual burden. It seems that while my "honor may be tarnished", simply by way of refusing to throw people I've worked with for years under some actual or virtual new hires...ie; people with 16+ continuous years of service beneath a new hired "probie", who's never even flown a revenue trip....Well...despite such an obscene level of "deceit, lack of integrity", etc...(I can't imagine where you fantasize any "remorse" from)....that there's yet a slim chance for personal salvation!!!.....Apparently; all I need now do is eagerly embrace the great scriptures from The Book of St. Nic, and my immortal soul, tarnished and unworthy as it is, might yet be saved. Whew!...During six decades of living...I've clearly, (although much mistakenly I now see), concerned myself with what I felt were far larger issues in life than whether or not you boys ever get your nic. It turns out that my entire life and personal character would all be ultimately defined by the nic issue instead! What a fool I've been!

I suppose though, to even hope for salvation, that I should first cleanse my spirit by way of open confession. ""It just took me a while to do the right thing..." does not even enter into my thinking here. It took me no time, not so much as even seconds after reading it, to conclude the Nic to be an utter obscenity, and entirely unworthy of further consideration by any decent people. It's clear that your moral compass is fine with placing people with said 16+ continuous years of service beneath a new hired "probie", who's never even flown a revenue trip...while mine, being evidently misshapen by "a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others and the rules of society", mistakenly believes that the person who's worked the 16+ is actually worthy of some respect. To further exhibit my manifest flaws, it's my earnest belief that anyone who could enthusiastically support the absurdity of placing said new hire ahead of any with the 16+ years worked, is so completely greed-soaked, and generally just plain full of incredibly twisted BS, as to qualify as at least marginally insane.

I'd suggest treading rather lightly when "diagnosing" any "personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others", unless you've a ready and comprehensive explanation of the MORAL, not "legal" basis for placing that new hire ahead of anyone who has the 16+ years of service.

I suppose we'll just have to agree to accept opposite corners at any given asylum 😉

PS: You sure there's no chance of gettin' one a' 'dem way-cool-dude "Integrity Matters" T shirts? I'd sure feel a lot closer to true salvation...No?....Sigh 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Keep digging....

Just wondered why, if everyone is afflicted, you singled out "some" westies and didn't point to a single eastie. Backpedaling makes you look bad - maybe you should go back to challenging everyone you disagree with to a dogfight. Or is your "dog" not big enough...

Jim

Ummm...."a single eastie" in the referenced case, would be myself. No matter. I see now my earlier error in assuming any comprehension on your part for "Indeed. Given a very minor participation within the entire human race; I certainly understand myself to be equally afflicted by any universal issues." I'll additionally concede that I grossly erred in yet another charitable assumption: "Even you, (at least I'd have thought), couldn't have been so utterly obtuse as to have missed that."

 

[767one]

Mrbreeze,

No, the sky is not falling. The BPR just passed a resolution on a merger assessment and the C&BLs already created a 1/2% merger dues increase. The facts are: That's about an $800 per year Group II TOS Captain union tax increase and $600 per year Group II TOS Captain union tax increase with the potential of another year of fruitless PIC assessments.

Meanwhile, USAPA has not provided one tangible benefit to the pilots in 4 years. :angry:

Just the Lowest paid, highest taxed, and likely even more union taxed pilots in the entire U.S.! :angry:

Just the facts versus the spin zone.

USA320Pilot

Looks like a lot of spin to me. Did you vote in the recent election? You can't make a change or complain if you did not vote.

 

[cleardirect]

CR,s say I can't have that west capt seat. I'm ok with you re writing them if you don't think they are right. Bottom line as I said. We want nothing of yours. Just let our guys take our capt seat openings as they become available. You keep twisting this into something we want that is not true

Sure I will rewrite the c&r. You keep what you had. 1700 furloughs. Any flights that you did not do prior to the merger the west does. All additional flying and aircraft is placed on the west. Move those 330 to the west. When those old 767 are retired they are not replaced on the east. Because you had old airplanes not new ones.

You just want what you had right. Not what comes with the merger. New flying is not yours, it is ours.

How does that work for you?

You say you don't want the west left seat but you do want anything that west captain would have as a merged company.

But the bottom line is the beginning list, DOH is unacceptable.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ummm...."a single eastie" in the referenced case, would be myself. No matter. I see now my earlier error in assuming any comprehension on your part for "Indeed. Given a very minor participation within the entire human race; I certainly understand myself to be equally afflicted by any universal issues." I'll additionally concede that I grossly erred in yet another charitable assumption: "Even you, (at least I'd have thought), couldn't have been so utterly obtuse as to have missed that."

That hole you're digging looks pretty deep...hear any Mandrin yet? Gotta love how you quote from your posts where you were backtraking to prove you aren't backtracking...

Jim

 

[crazystnic]

Sure I will rewrite the c&r. You keep what you had. 1700 furloughs. Any flights that you did not do prior to the merger the west does. All additional flying and aircraft is placed on the west. Move those 330 to the west. When those old 767 are retired they are not replaced on the east. Because you had old airplanes not new ones.

You just want what you had right. Not what comes with the merger. New flying is not yours, it is ours.

How does that work for you?

You say you don't want the west left seat but you do want anything that west captain would have as a merged company.

But the bottom line is the beginning list, DOH is unacceptable.

Ya you want it all thought so, and your not very bright either. The furloughs were coming back it's called a cycle. Maybe you are new to aviation. But you just proved my point you want to take from us.

And the nic is unacceptable. How is that

At least you can have a conversation with bean.

 

[EastUS1]

That hole you're digging looks pretty deep...hear any Mandrin yet? Gotta love how you quote from your posts where you were backtraking to prove you aren't backtracking...

Jim

You have me at a distinct disadvantage with that, as I'm not nearly as fluent in Frothy Babble as yourself. Is there any chance for a translation into something of a more recognizable language?

 

[BoeingBoy]

No, I don't speak east idiot...it takes way too many words to say nothing of value...

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

No, I don't speak east idiot..
Jim

Fair enough. You needn't really speak to properly establish your credentials. Your keyboard behavior suffices nicely.

 

[cleardirect]

Ya you want it all thought so, and your not very bright either. The furloughs were coming back it's called a cycle. Maybe you are new to aviation. But you just proved my point you want to take from us.

And the nic is unacceptable. How is that

At least you can have a conversation with bean.

You keep what you brought. That is what you say you want right. What is the problem? How am taking anything from you if you keep what you brought? You asked me to rewrite the c&r. What you don't like them? Do you now understand how insulting usapa c&r's are?

Guess I touched an nerve. Starting with the insults.