What''s going on w/A330 row 1?

[PHL]

Rumors are flying that row 1 of the A330 will be coming out as the equip. goes in for C checks. If so, then what will be the config of rows 1 thru 7? Will 1-5 be standard Envoy and then coach in 6 and higher, or will there be an additional row of the Envoy seats, bringing the total to 42 seats? Or is it just a rumor and is U leaving the seating config. as is?

 

[LavMan]

they are not making money on the F seats, that is why they are going to make them Envoy.

 

[LavMan]

First class was eliminated and has been sold as Envoy, the plan is to remove the seats and replace them with the envoy seats, because they can sell Envoy vs frist class.

 

[PHL]

But they don't gain any extra seats, do they? It's a 1:1 replacement ratio, unless they plan on re-pitching everything to make room for 2 more rows......

If they're bumping up the full paying J pax and/or Chairman's Preferred's, why spend the money reconfiguring the seats - especially since they give the airline the option of reintroducing a real international F product?

 

[MarkMyWords]

I agree that the first class seats haven't brought in any "real" purchases since they were installed to warrant keeping them. My question would be what levels of service do the Star Alliance Partners offer on their transatlantic flights? Do they have a First Class, Business Class and Coach product? If they do, then we may be forced to keep the premuim seats to have a standardized transatlantic product with our flying partners. If they do not, then I am sure they will be eliminated and additional Envoy seats added.

 

[Jon153]

Does anyone have any information on the new A330-200s? What year they are planning on deliveries, and where will these aircraft be used?

 

[TomBascom]

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On 8/7/2003 1:43:16 PM LavMan wrote:

they are not making money on the F seats, that is why they are going to make them Envoy.

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They're already being sold as Envoy. F went away as a discrete product a long time ago. There is no difference in service. The sole difference is that the seat reclines more. How does swapping them out make any difference at all? Doesn't it just cost (some) money? Or is there some excessive maintenance associated with these seats that would be reduced by taking them out? Or does taking them out result in additional seats being installed and available for sale? Otherwise you're just saying that changing them from blue to green is going to result in making more money.

 

[PHL]

Many of the Star members have 3 classes. Lufthansa's Airbi widebodies have 1 row of F in a 2-1-2 config. Thai, Singapore and UA all have generous F products on their Intl. routes.

Lavman - I realize that U is not making money on them since they stopped selling F. But to just swap them out with 6 other seats without increasing capacity anywhere else in the plane really doesn't make a difference.

 

[LavMan]

It is a parts and maintenance issue to stock parts and repair 54 seats is not cost effective nor commonality when selling the Envoy product because the seats are actually sleepers and not Envoy.

 

[jcrb]

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On 8/7/2003 150 PM LavMan wrote:


First class was eliminated and has been sold as Envoy, the plan is to remove the seats and replace them with the envoy seats, because they can sell Envoy vs frist class.

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You better not take the first row out before the 25th, I'm planning on getting a good nights sleep on my PHL-FRA flight

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

(Sigh) Another service downgrade. Although the international F was withdrawn, row 1 is a nice perk
for our loyal top flyers. I wonder how this will save any money. (If it does, maybe it can be spent on green limes!) Meanwhile Northwest's new A-330s have fold flat seats in business class. They look rather nice. But, I think that Envoy still gets real glassware so all is not lost.

To all of our great customers (especially the US1s): Thanks for still flying is on US spite of everthing BBB and his ilk keep throwing at you.

 

[geo1004]

Hello Shirley!

 

[jcrb]

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On 8/8/2003 10:44:14 AM Dont call me Shirley wrote:


To all of our great customers (especially the US1s): Thanks for still flying is on US spite of everthing BBB and his ilk keep throwing at you.

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One of the nice things about being a US1 is getting up to row 1 on the flights across the pond (Last month I had to got to VIE but flew into FRA rather than MUC so as to be on the A330).

I have been out of work this entire year but should be at about 80K miles by months end. It gets harder and harder to justify paying for tickets with $ instead of with miles the more the services are reduced. What good are complementary upgrades if the FC seats have been reduced on many planes? What good are companion upgrades if there isnt even a FC section on flights to places I might want to go on vacation with my family?

I am going to stop now before I begin ranting about how much I am comming to dislike air travel these days. Between the security stupidity everywhere and the pricing/rule nonsense that has swept the industry if people dont start bringing back GOOD SERVICE air travel is soon going to have the attractiveness of a cross contry bus ride.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

A couple of years ago, I flew LH in coach and then upgraded to Biz on the way back (lucky break). This was on an A340. I just recently flew Envoy on a U A330.

I'm sorry to say that the Envoy cabin and seats were kind of a disappointment. LH's Envoy seats were much more comfortable and modern looking. U's service was great, but the cabin and seats and comfort did not compare well.

And LH did have a very generous first class product on this trans atlantic route (which didn't last past 9-11)